My Family’s Slave • Hacker News Board

Re: My Family’s Slave

#461

Post by abalashov » Wed, May 17, 2017, 10:05 AM UTC

danso wrote: post #414

I'm late on commenting on this. Saw the story passed around here and on social media and figured it'd be worth waiting until the evening to read... I actually ended up reading Tizon's piece after seeing this Tweet from someone I follow, which pointed out sanitized obituary, which Tizon played a part in informing: https://twitter.com/WendyBrandes/status/864655516227784704 http://o.seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localn…

Well, like you said, he's only human. And in order to write about his own family's story in a compelling and provocative way, one has to have some journalistic thesis to offer, not just to give a matter-of-fact descriptive account. That requires reaching some conclusions and finding some closure on one's own first.

Don't underestimate the psychological escape velocity required to overcome the pull of that which has been presented to you as normal--and which you believed in some measure to be normal--for much of your life, notwithstanding occasional misgivings and questions. That pull can persist well into middle age, and long after you've realised the problem intellectually. And of course, there are practical questions to consider, such as how such a revelation might tank one's career or credibility as a journalist. That might seem unprincipled, but remember that any moral position is diluted by one's own ongoing deliberations.

Finally, writing about people who are still alive and who may be impacted by your story is an often overlooked source of sensitivity. Imagine how this story might have impacted Alex Tizon's own mother if published while she were still alive.

Re: My Family’s Slave

#462

Post by kelnos » Wed, May 17, 2017, 10:11 AM UTC

MrLeap wrote: post #98

Chaebixi wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is no question in my mind that I would confront anyone I knew engaging in the situation you're describing. Among my circles, injustices always seem to be a third person. But there should be a question in your mind unless you've actually confronted something like this yourself (with all of it's associated complexity). Until then, your certainty is only a fantasy.

Sure, a fantasy. I doubt you can be convinced, but let me try. I was always sure that if someone broke into my home, I would confront them - lethally - if necessary, despite any complexities. Dignity is important to me, and I'm willing to take risks to keep it. When I was a sweet summer child I used to think that was the default state of adulthood. Well, recently someone did break into my home at 3am. Coincidentally…

Yeah, I'm with you on this. This doesn't even need to be accusatory in the first place, just something like "hey, when I was staying at your house I noticed that your housekeeper was sleeping on a mat in the kitchen: just was wondering what's up with that". The guy could decide based on the answer if it was legit ("that's weird; she has a room... it's the third door on the left on the second floor; I'll check on her and make sure she's ok") or suspicious ("oh, she's strange and I think she likes it there") and if it made sense to press more.

I really _really_ hope I'd confront this "friend" if I were in that situation. It's definitely the right thing to do.

Re: My Family’s Slave

#463

Post by Broken_Hippo » Wed, May 17, 2017, 10:12 AM UTC

bagels wrote: post #376

pje wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the entire capitalist system is built upon uncompensated [domestic] labor Absolutely. This observation was/is the catalyst of many leftist movements, for example Wages For Housework: > The Campaign was formed to raise awareness of how housework and childcare are the base of all industrial work and to stake the claim that these unavoidable tasks should be compensated as paid wage labor. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki…

Childcare is avoidable if you avoid making children.

Alrighty. Celibacy for the nation? Greatly better sex eduction? Greater access to birth control? Free sterilization for those who desire it? What about the times these things fail? And so on.

Most folks aren't cut out for celibacy, honestly. And every other option costs money. Besides, we actually need some folks to have kids, so we still have to deal with this sort of issue.

Re: My Family’s Slave

#464

Post by dismantlethesun » Wed, May 17, 2017, 10:12 AM UTC

anovikov wrote: post #444

gambiting wrote: post #433

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe you should stick your nose outside a bit more often? In Poland if you make ~$20k/year you are super rich, can easily afford to not just buy but build a new house. There's absolutely nothing miserable about it. Saying that "nowhere in the world" $55k provides a good life is just hilariously wrong. Even in UK, I make ~$35k before tax and I'm living a very comfortable life.

I live in Lithuania actually and spend about $140K a year. I don't scrap by, but no luxuries either, i fly coach and stay in 4* hotels. My kid goes to best private school, that's about the only luxury i can afford, and that's just because i am really determined to help her not live her life in same shit as myself.

I don't know why you don't consider flying and 4 star hotels to be luxuries. They are something poor people simply cannot afford.

Re: My Family’s Slave

#465

Post by danso » Wed, May 17, 2017, 10:13 AM UTC

SanPilot wrote: post #231

My parents were born and have lived in Pakistan for their entire childhood up to adulthood. They then moved to the United States, where I was born and have lived for my entire life. On occasion, I visited my parent's home in Pakistan, although the trips became increasingly scarce as grandparents passed (now all four are gone). The house has always had domestic workers present, a single family. The first few times a m…

The situation you describe seems to involve inequality, but it's significantly different than what "Lola" is described to have endured. The decision to move to the U.S. was entirely the author's family's. Lola was promised that she would get paid enough to move back, but the family never kept that promise. When she begged for them to allow her to visit her dying parents, they refused. And then her 5-year visa ran out, and because the family did not deal with that lapse, Lola was now forced to live in slavery forever because trying to send her back would jeopardize the entire family's immigration status. Stupid Lola!

The author is a great writer, and obviously a distinguished journalist. If this article had been written by the real-life version of "Silicon Valley's" Peter Gregory (including the untimely death), I have a feeling sentiment toward the piece would be much different.

Re: My Family’s Slave

#466

Post by Sacho » Wed, May 17, 2017, 10:14 AM UTC

hyperdunc wrote: post #385

throwaway66494 wrote: post #216

My family adopted my female cousin nearly 30 years ago from Guatemala. The country was in civil war at the time so bringing her to the U.S. was in her best interest. Unfortunately my mother and aunt (sisters of her birth father) kept her so locked down that she is effectively a slave. My aunt hasn't worked in decades because my little sister has always signed every paycheck over to my aunt. After working for nearly 2…

Rhetorical questions (that you've probably already asked yourself many times): Why are you letting this happen and what do you fear will happen if you do something about it?

What if they "do something about it" and it turns out no one wanted their "help" and they alienate both their aunt and the "slave"? That would be the obvious question on my mind. Especially if you do something irreversible like call the government to intervene.

Re: My Family’s Slave

#467

Post by abalashov » Wed, May 17, 2017, 10:14 AM UTC

Mz wrote: post #52

lordnacho wrote: post #20

I had a terrible "Billy" moment a few years ago. I was travelling and a friend said I could use her house, because it was empty. This was perfect for me, since I had a wife and kid. It turns out there was a housekeeper. She did everything for us, made us feel very comfortable, cooked, served, helped with the kid, etc. Then one day I found out she didn't have her own room, despite the place being a multi storey mansio…

My main thought is there's a sort of Stockholm syndrome going on. Lola still had thoughts for her family back home, but she was so integrated in the new family it became part of her life, too. I guess it's a coping mechanism. Even slaves need meaning in their lives, and taking care of kids is meaning. OH, puhleez. This is so much worse than theories of "codependency," as if a woman with young kids being financially d…

We don't want to hear it, but there is some truth to the idea that you need a middle class income to afford middle class morality.

So much this. You win the Internet today!

Re: My Family’s Slave

#468

Post by Broken_Hippo » Wed, May 17, 2017, 10:15 AM UTC

pervycreeper wrote: post #291

achou wrote: post #141

Truly remarkable story. One thing that struck me is that Lola did so much of the work of a traditional mother's role: raising the kids, cooking, cleaning, laundry, and even providing emotional support. The mother had to take on a traditional father's role in bringing home an income. And the actual father - well, he did neither role and seemed to just freeload, gamble, abuse, and finally disappear. All of the work in…

>it's usually uncompensated too In Western society, the act of marriage confers (often vastly) increased wealth and status to the lower status partner, and it is usually women who prefer to "marry up". Furthermore, it is also vastly more fulfilling and satisfying to care for one's own children than one's mistress's children. No two roles could be more different, frankly.

* Furthermore, it is also vastly more fulfilling and satisfying to care for one's own children than one's mistress's children. No two roles could be more different, frankly."

Speak for yourself. I'd much rather take care of other people's children. I can go home to a nice, child-free house, as I have no desire for children of my own.

Re: My Family’s Slave

#469

Post by kelnos » Wed, May 17, 2017, 10:15 AM UTC

legolas2412 wrote: post #255

true_religion wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To me, I'm wondering where the mistreatment is. We have someone sleeping on a matt, and getting a daily wake up call to do their work. Work which presumably they are being paid for---we don't know if they're not being paid for the work. Now in the USA, sleeping on a matt in the kitchen is some kind of terrible situation that no one would live with but.... In my country, I slept on a matt as a child. I wasn't poor. We…

So much this! I am appalled at this thread possibly full of non-asian people who think having a room and board househelp is slavery. They are free to quit and renegotiate salaries. Their children are free to do whatever they want, infact we help in their education and give them gifts. If anything it tends to be a more empathic employer-employee relationship, albeit with shit salary. There is real slavery however, bon…

I think we don't have enough information to decide either way. The guy who visited his friend's house seems to think everything wasn't above-board there. Maybe he's wrong, but the responsible thing to do is follow up on it with the friend, promptly. It doesn't need to be an accusation, just an "I noticed something odd; can you tell me what's going on?" type thing. And if the explanation isn't satisfying, you get the authorities involved, immediately.

Regardless, just because something is culturally acceptable (like Lola's slavery back in the Philippines), it doesn't make it right.

Re: My Family’s Slave

#470

Post by Broken_Hippo » Wed, May 17, 2017, 10:20 AM UTC

canoebuilder wrote: post #407

achou wrote: post #141

Truly remarkable story. One thing that struck me is that Lola did so much of the work of a traditional mother's role: raising the kids, cooking, cleaning, laundry, and even providing emotional support. The mother had to take on a traditional father's role in bringing home an income. And the actual father - well, he did neither role and seemed to just freeload, gamble, abuse, and finally disappear. All of the work in…

An argument could be made that the entire capitalist system is built upon uncompensated labor. This is kind of an odd damning of capitalism, because no matter how we organize society, there is going to continue to be mothering so long as our species is to survive. And whatever societal system we may have, that society is going to be built in large part by mothering.

Yes, be we can do different solutions.

I'd also like to point out that the statement would not only include mothers, but children and slaves of different sorts. The current equivalent is likely things like community service, prison labor, homeless working in stores to stay in shelters, and charities - at least in the US.