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My Family’s Slave

theatlantic.com

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Re: My Family’s Slave

#451

Post by yakult »

throwaway9980 wrote: post #334
yakult wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>we're chasing the same things with more dollars. you're missing the part where more demand creates more supply. Sure, sometimes the market is distorted due to zoning, like in SF, and also land is finite, but generally speaking the market responds to the added demand by creating more housing, possibly denser housing. Same with other goods. Those are not empty dollars that got added into the system by fiat - they repr…

Agreed. And that's why I said "assuming supply stays the same" when talking about the housing market. I don't think I was clear with what I meant by 2x and 1.5x. I'm assuming those dollars represent productive labor and that means that there's more supply. My point is that I think the supply side isn't keeping up. The economy itself isn't bringing home 2x the bacon, but rather 1.5x the bacon when you're feeding all t…

This is the crux: my point is that 1.5x the bacon is often still worth 2x the labour. Seriously, despite all the moaning about materialism and consumerism, the economy as a whole has suffered from a severe lack of bacon ever since the first monkey exchanged some bacon for a back rub, and this is definitely part of the solution.

Re: My Family’s Slave

#452

Post by yakult »

Spooky23 wrote: post #338
yakult wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As with almost all optimization problems, applying twice the resources (in this case, work hours) won't bring you back twice the (net) bacon, due to diminishing returns. However, I think on net it is still more economically productive, at least in a large portion of cases. It's unlikely that housework and childcare would optimally take up a full 50% of our entire reservoir of workable-hours, especially in the age of…

My wife and I found ourselves in this situation, and it there are slot of side benefits. - We don't spend our weekends shopping. - my wife can volunteer at my sons school and church, which opens up more social opportunities and keeps us tight with school. - We spend less in clothes, groceries and eating out. The value of this is much greater than anticipated. Overall, life is better. We're not driving new cars anymor…

>Other than that, the sacrifice is minimal.

This is the difference. If you were making, say, a quarter what you're currently making, perhaps the sacrifice would be huge.

Re: My Family’s Slave

#453

Post by bkkssnn »

MrLeap wrote: post #98
Chaebixi wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is no question in my mind that I would confront anyone I knew engaging in the situation you're describing. Among my circles, injustices always seem to be a third person. But there should be a question in your mind unless you've actually confronted something like this yourself (with all of it's associated complexity). Until then, your certainty is only a fantasy.

Sure, a fantasy. I doubt you can be convinced, but let me try. I was always sure that if someone broke into my home, I would confront them - lethally - if necessary, despite any complexities. Dignity is important to me, and I'm willing to take risks to keep it. When I was a sweet summer child I used to think that was the default state of adulthood. Well, recently someone did break into my home at 3am. Coincidentally…

Confronting suspicions about friend mabey being a slave owner is 100% something I would do and I assume most people would. But mabey im naive? Peoples rationalisations for gross unethical behavior in this thread are indeed troubling.

Re: My Family’s Slave

#455

Post by abalashov »

legolas2412 wrote: post #238
sidlls wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those other families are masters in a master-slave relationship.

I would argue that the salaries aren't enough, but as long as they have freedom to quit and leave, and their children aren't beholden to their debts, it isn't slavery.

That's where the complexity and much of the salient issues lie in the 21st century version: formal (de jure) freedom vs. de facto freedom.

To put some clearer relief around the point: the author's parents had no means of keeping Lola in their home by force. They had no right to shoot or maim her if she attempted to leave, and would have been convicted of murder if they did. But where would she go and what would she do, illiterate, with no education or practical experience with worldly matters, no skills, and uncertain legal status?

Few human beings will cope with that level of uncertainty, and to imagine that they ought to is, I would say, a conceit of someone who is unable to properly situate themselves in that person's shoes as a mental exercise. The familiar, with all of its unpleasantness, can be a welcome refuge from the fear and uncertainty of the outside world, especially if the familiar is all you know, you have few bases for comparison, and weren't brought up socially to embrace fear or uncertainty to any degree.

Re: My Family’s Slave

#456

Post by quirkafleeg »

abritinthebay wrote: post #394
quirkafleeg wrote: post #380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here. He wasn't calling the OP a sinner, or even questioning his posting on HN, he was telling him to do something to stop the abuse of his sister.

Some people would rather criticize the critics than admit there is a problem. :(

Indeed. Rather than worrying about hurting the feelings of someone sharing a "difficult situation" (the horrible exploitation and abuse of someone else, that they admit themselves they "feel complicit" in), perhaps some people here should spare more concern for the actual victim.

Re: My Family’s Slave

#457

Post by kelnos »

Chaebixi wrote: post #78
bflesch wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you're trying to tell us that your feeling of uncomfortness is the only thing stopping you from growing a spine and standing up for such an inhumane treatment, that apart from you nobody else can witness? Have some decency and confront your so-called friend. How can people be rich and not have the decency to give the person feeding you and your family a freaking room. And I really had to constrain myself from usin…

> your feeling of uncomfortness is the only thing stopping you from growing a spine and standing up for such an inhumane treatment > Have some decency and confront your so-called friend. I think your advice falls into the "much easier to say (from a great distance) than do" category. The people who unfailingly and immediately know and do the moral thing, regardless of personal cost or expectation of results, are ofte…

> I think your advice falls into the "much easier to say (from a great distance) than do" category.

That may be true, but that doesn't change the fact that it's the right thing to do. The parent's language was perhaps a bit more inflammatory than it needed to be, but sometimes you need someone outside the situation to be more objective and remind you -- possibly rudely -- what needed to be done.

I hope I would have the wisdom and fortitude to do the right thing in that situation, but I won't know until and unless I'm put in it.

Re: My Family’s Slave

#458

Post by hueving »

hyperdunc wrote: post #385
throwaway66494 wrote: post #216

My family adopted my female cousin nearly 30 years ago from Guatemala. The country was in civil war at the time so bringing her to the U.S. was in her best interest. Unfortunately my mother and aunt (sisters of her birth father) kept her so locked down that she is effectively a slave. My aunt hasn't worked in decades because my little sister has always signed every paycheck over to my aunt. After working for nearly 2…

Rhetorical questions (that you've probably already asked yourself many times): Why are you letting this happen and what do you fear will happen if you do something about it?

Many people are hesitant to intervene in something that will likely destroy their own family. This should not be surprising at all. It happens all of the time in family abuse cases.

Re: My Family’s Slave

#459

Post by vanderZwan »

tathougies wrote: post #391
achou wrote: post #141

Truly remarkable story. One thing that struck me is that Lola did so much of the work of a traditional mother's role: raising the kids, cooking, cleaning, laundry, and even providing emotional support. The mother had to take on a traditional father's role in bringing home an income. And the actual father - well, he did neither role and seemed to just freeload, gamble, abuse, and finally disappear. All of the work in…

> All of the work in a traditional mother's role, well it's usually uncompensated too. Sure it's a "labor of love" but it's also just a huge amount of work, for decades. An argument could be made that the entire capitalist system is built upon uncompensated labor. Just ask your mom. I mean the key difference here is the obvious one, which is that spouses have complete access to the other's money. period. If Lola had…

I understand your defensiveness over feeling that what I'm sure is a loving and nurturing union between you and your partner is being compared to forms of slavery, and you raise good points why a direct comparison would be overblown. However, I would be more careful with your choice of words here:

> The entire institution of marriage is meant to prevent one spouse from controlling the other by simply making ownership joint.

The way this particular point is phrased makes it sound like this was always the case. However, it is a very recent change in how the laws work, as a direct result of mainly women fighting for their rights. It used to be the case in many countries that only the men can decide to end a marriage, and I'm sure that is still the case in many places.

Maybe the legal framework of modern marriage in California is decent at guaranteeing equality, but that is not something to be assumed to be the general way marriage works, let alone something to be taken for granted. And I'm sure you'll agree that the institution of marriage is important enough that it deserves critical examination.

Re: My Family’s Slave

#460

Post by hueving »

anovikov wrote: post #444
gambiting wrote: post #433

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe you should stick your nose outside a bit more often? In Poland if you make ~$20k/year you are super rich, can easily afford to not just buy but build a new house. There's absolutely nothing miserable about it. Saying that "nowhere in the world" $55k provides a good life is just hilariously wrong. Even in UK, I make ~$35k before tax and I'm living a very comfortable life.

I live in Lithuania actually and spend about $140K a year. I don't scrap by, but no luxuries either, i fly coach and stay in 4* hotels. My kid goes to best private school, that's about the only luxury i can afford, and that's just because i am really determined to help her not live her life in same shit as myself.

Are you talking about USD? You are seriously burning money somewhere if so.
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