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My Family’s Slave

theatlantic.com

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Re: My Family’s Slave

#331

Post by yakult »

throwaway9980 wrote: post #311
yakult wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As with almost all optimization problems, applying twice the resources (in this case, work hours) won't bring you back twice the (net) bacon, due to diminishing returns. However, I think on net it is still more economically productive, at least in a large portion of cases. It's unlikely that housework and childcare would optimally take up a full 50% of our entire reservoir of workable-hours, especially in the age of…

Great point and I agree with most of your sentiment, but I'm not sure you got all of my point. What I'm saying, and a big component of what I'm thinking about is housing costs, is that we're chasing the same things with more dollars. If household incomes double, expect the price of houses to follow suit. Assuming supply doesn't change, it doesn't help to earn 2x the money when all the bidders in the marketplace also…

>we're chasing the same things with more dollars.

you're missing the part where more demand creates more supply.

Sure, sometimes the market is distorted due to zoning, like in SF, and also land is finite, but generally speaking the market responds to the added demand by creating more housing, possibly denser housing. Same with other goods. Those are not empty dollars that got added into the system by fiat - they represent additional productive work done, and the goods / services they create is added to the economy.

Re: My Family’s Slave

#332

Post by torantas »

jimmywanger wrote: post #36
neaden wrote: post #5

A well written story. I'd be interested in hearing from any Filipino commentators how common this practice still is/is perceived to be in the Philippines today. It's ranked 33/167 by Global Slavery Index[0] as compared to the US at #52. [0] https://www.globalslaveryindex.org/country/philippines/

I don't know how common it is in the Philippines, but it's very common in rich parts of China and Taiwan [0]. Although they probably do get paid something and have freedom, the situations are very similar. Dropped into a location without the ability to speak the language or financial resources to escape. [0] https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00EHNSDKK/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?...

What? It's not similar at all.

Not only are they paid well, there are government restrictions on who can hire a foreign live-in caregiver.

Usually there has to be a compelling reason like the person is handicapped or extremely elderly.

The reason it's so heavily regulated is because they are taking away jobs from native caregivers.

That book was published in 2006 and if that's what you got from it, then it's extremely outdated.

Re: My Family’s Slave

#333

Post by torantas »

shas3 wrote: post #51

Great read! Many Asian countries have the concept of live-in housekeepers. I think the 'best' (scraping the bottom, here) arrangement is in Singapore, where the government, laws, and law-enforcement ensure that immigrant live-in housekeepers are treated fairly- kinda like au pairs, etc. in the US. I knew someone in India who brought their live-in maid's sister to the US in some capacity (and AFAIK, paid her wages- sh…

> Many Asian countries have the concept of live-in housekeepers.

As educated as the HN crowd is, I'm surprised so many people are susceptible to stereotypes.

Perhaps because most people on HN are rather wealthy and well off, when they visit Asia they hang around other rich Asians.

So yes, among rich Asians, the idea of a live-in caretaker maybe common, but they are the minority.

This would be like some rich Asian people hanging out with rich Westerners and saying, "many Western countries have the concept of live-in butlers and maids."

Re: My Family’s Slave

#334

Post by throwaway9980 »

yakult wrote: post #331
throwaway9980 wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great point and I agree with most of your sentiment, but I'm not sure you got all of my point. What I'm saying, and a big component of what I'm thinking about is housing costs, is that we're chasing the same things with more dollars. If household incomes double, expect the price of houses to follow suit. Assuming supply doesn't change, it doesn't help to earn 2x the money when all the bidders in the marketplace also…

>we're chasing the same things with more dollars. you're missing the part where more demand creates more supply. Sure, sometimes the market is distorted due to zoning, like in SF, and also land is finite, but generally speaking the market responds to the added demand by creating more housing, possibly denser housing. Same with other goods. Those are not empty dollars that got added into the system by fiat - they repr…

Agreed. And that's why I said "assuming supply stays the same" when talking about the housing market. I don't think I was clear with what I meant by 2x and 1.5x. I'm assuming those dollars represent productive labor and that means that there's more supply.

My point is that I think the supply side isn't keeping up. The economy itself isn't bringing home 2x the bacon, but rather 1.5x the bacon when you're feeding all this extra labor into it. And yes, this is due to market distortions and diminishing returns.

Re: My Family’s Slave

#335

Post by bestopesto »

lordnacho wrote: post #20

I had a terrible "Billy" moment a few years ago. I was travelling and a friend said I could use her house, because it was empty. This was perfect for me, since I had a wife and kid. It turns out there was a housekeeper. She did everything for us, made us feel very comfortable, cooked, served, helped with the kid, etc. Then one day I found out she didn't have her own room, despite the place being a multi storey mansio…

Just send your friend the article with a vague message like, "Wow, this article was so powerful!"

Re: My Family’s Slave

#336

Post by charsifood »

torantas wrote: post #333
shas3 wrote: post #51

Great read! Many Asian countries have the concept of live-in housekeepers. I think the 'best' (scraping the bottom, here) arrangement is in Singapore, where the government, laws, and law-enforcement ensure that immigrant live-in housekeepers are treated fairly- kinda like au pairs, etc. in the US. I knew someone in India who brought their live-in maid's sister to the US in some capacity (and AFAIK, paid her wages- sh…

> Many Asian countries have the concept of live-in housekeepers. As educated as the HN crowd is, I'm surprised so many people are susceptible to stereotypes. Perhaps because most people on HN are rather wealthy and well off, when they visit Asia they hang around other rich Asians. So yes, among rich Asians, the idea of a live-in caretaker maybe common, but they are the minority. This would be like some rich Asian peo…

It's incredibly common. A live-in caretaker/helper in Hong Kong is about $500 USD/month. In South East Asia, it's a fraction of that.

You are completely ignorant of the situation if you think otherwise. The Hong Kong government has even set up special visa programs for helpers: http://www.immd.gov.hk/eng/services/visas/foreign_domestic_h...

Re: My Family’s Slave

#337

Post by wyclif »

pfooti wrote: post #326
wyclif wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Lola" was not her "slave name." "Lola" is an affectionate nickname that means "grandma" in Filipino.

"Lola" was the name her owners called her. Affectionate is a complicated word here, considering that affection didn't change the fact that a woman was held in servitude to the Tizon family. The least we can do in this situation is try to stop erasing her real name.

I think you're reading far too much into my comment — of course it's deeply disturbing and troubling that this woman was a slave. I was not suggesting at all that calling her "Lola" in any way mitigates the horror of that. I'm only stating that in standard usage, that is what the word means in Filipino.

Re: My Family’s Slave

#338

Post by Spooky23 »

yakult wrote: post #299
throwaway9980 wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It often feels like two income households are counter productive. Sure, we make more money, but it feels like 2x the dollars chasing 1.5x the pie out in the world. And then you have to pay for childcare. As for the household work, I was just telling someone today how much I miss being able to work all the time. I love my kids and they come first, but it's a sacrifice to for me not to work 12+ hour days.

As with almost all optimization problems, applying twice the resources (in this case, work hours) won't bring you back twice the (net) bacon, due to diminishing returns. However, I think on net it is still more economically productive, at least in a large portion of cases. It's unlikely that housework and childcare would optimally take up a full 50% of our entire reservoir of workable-hours, especially in the age of…

My wife and I found ourselves in this situation, and it there are slot of side benefits.

- We don't spend our weekends shopping.

- my wife can volunteer at my sons school and church, which opens up more social opportunities and keeps us tight with school.

- We spend less in clothes, groceries and eating out. The value of this is much greater than anticipated.

Overall, life is better. We're not driving new cars anymore. Other than that, the sacrifice is minimal. Her skill set is such that she can basically become employed again at any time.

Re: My Family’s Slave

#339

Post by weberc2 »

toadi wrote: post #316
sillysaurus3 wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a male, I'd personally prefer to live a life filled with traditional housewife work. Kids are fun, and I'd like raising them. I like cooking. Cleaning is pretty fun. More than that, though, employment sucks. If you keep me fed, clothed, and with an internet connection, I'd be happy as a clam, even spending eight hours a day doing nothing but housework. I sometimes wonder if there are others who feel this way, espe…

Actually, my girlfriend is the same. She tried working as an employee and even self-employed. But finally, she's happy being a housewife. My mother and even friends frown upon me. Like I push her to be a housewife. Actually, I supported her working and even helped her to be self-employed. But she's most happy being a housewife. I think people just want to have a big home, 2 cars annually 2 holidays and that costs a l…

My wife has always had traditionally-feminine work preferences, but she's felt a lot of shame from her more left-leaning friends and coworkers (we're both moderate liberals). Similarly, my office is very liberal, and I often feel a bit judged if I mention that my wife cooked my lunch or otherwise mention that my wife's hobbies are traditionally feminine. Ironically, our conservative friends and family have never said a word about whether she works or tends home; they're very laissez-faire about the matter. I don't mean to make a political point here; just an observation I found interesting in light of popular political stereotypes.

Re: My Family’s Slave

#340

Post by naitoon »

throwaway66494 wrote: post #216

My family adopted my female cousin nearly 30 years ago from Guatemala. The country was in civil war at the time so bringing her to the U.S. was in her best interest. Unfortunately my mother and aunt (sisters of her birth father) kept her so locked down that she is effectively a slave. My aunt hasn't worked in decades because my little sister has always signed every paycheck over to my aunt. After working for nearly 2…

I think this qualifies for Adult Protection Services, in the sense that there's a social disability due to the prolonged lack of exposure to the real world:

http://www.napsa-now.org

You may want to Google for the one in your region or city.

PLEASE report it.

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