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My Family’s Slave

theatlantic.com

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Re: My Family’s Slave

#311

Post by throwaway9980 »

yakult wrote: post #299
throwaway9980 wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It often feels like two income households are counter productive. Sure, we make more money, but it feels like 2x the dollars chasing 1.5x the pie out in the world. And then you have to pay for childcare. As for the household work, I was just telling someone today how much I miss being able to work all the time. I love my kids and they come first, but it's a sacrifice to for me not to work 12+ hour days.

As with almost all optimization problems, applying twice the resources (in this case, work hours) won't bring you back twice the (net) bacon, due to diminishing returns. However, I think on net it is still more economically productive, at least in a large portion of cases. It's unlikely that housework and childcare would optimally take up a full 50% of our entire reservoir of workable-hours, especially in the age of…

Great point and I agree with most of your sentiment, but I'm not sure you got all of my point.

What I'm saying, and a big component of what I'm thinking about is housing costs, is that we're chasing the same things with more dollars. If household incomes double, expect the price of houses to follow suit. Assuming supply doesn't change, it doesn't help to earn 2x the money when all the bidders in the marketplace also have 2x the money.

Re: My Family’s Slave

#313

Post by nooron »

Mz wrote: post #265
vacri wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Fine Article mentions a number of times where Lola was not allowed freedom of movement. She had no freedom of movement, no pay (or ability to direct money), no personal life, no say in what she did, and was kept in place by fear. It certainly wasn't the common role of a wife a hundred years ago to be kept from a dying parent, for example. The nature of her labour is not what made Lola a slave; it was the circumst…

I am not readily finding citations, but I recall one of my history professors stating that the veil was heralded as a vast improvement for women in terms of freedom in some parts of the world because, historically, women in a lot of places left the house twice in their life: Once to get married, a second time to get buried. The veil allowed them to at least leave the house. I don't think you know as much about the hi…

I thought this was a reasonable and strikingly good faith comment. I do not know why it is receiving such punitive downvoting. Thank you for sharing your historical perspective.

Re: My Family’s Slave

#314

Post by MockObject »

hobs wrote: post #42
lordnacho wrote: post #20

I had a terrible "Billy" moment a few years ago. I was travelling and a friend said I could use her house, because it was empty. This was perfect for me, since I had a wife and kid. It turns out there was a housekeeper. She did everything for us, made us feel very comfortable, cooked, served, helped with the kid, etc. Then one day I found out she didn't have her own room, despite the place being a multi storey mansio…

I usually refrain from telling people who they are instead of what they do, but your friend is not a feminist or a left-leaning idealist if they have a slave, full stop.

Well, men have owned slaves for ages, so it's only fair for women to catch up in this measure.

Re: My Family’s Slave

#315

Post by interger »

neaden wrote: post #5

A well written story. I'd be interested in hearing from any Filipino commentators how common this practice still is/is perceived to be in the Philippines today. It's ranked 33/167 by Global Slavery Index[0] as compared to the US at #52. [0] https://www.globalslaveryindex.org/country/philippines/

Filipino here living in the Philippines.

What I can tell you is that this kind slavery-level practice is virtually non-existent. Maids/Housekeepers/"Kasambahay"s/"Katulong"s are expected to be paid. The practice of employing kasambahays is still common among the middle class and is expected of rich families. In lower classes families that are more well off sometimes takes in relatives, of course paying them something for them to save up or paying for their tuition if they're studying. Houseworkers are mostly needed to take care of little children as it is now more common for families to have both parents working.

Here in the Philippines a LOT of television dramas are with protagonists coming from lower classes, often with plots where they are being employed as houseworkers (and you kind of get where this is going :). And television viewership is almost universal here, even in remote villages. I think this really helps a lot for people who identify with these drama characters.

We have now laws setting salary, benefits and treatment standards for houseworkers. This is the landmark law that was signed into law in 2013: https://www.dole.gov.ph/files/Q%20&%20A%20on%20Batas%20Kasam...

Re: My Family’s Slave

#316

Post by toadi »

sillysaurus3 wrote: post #270
Mz wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have seen career women kind of jokingly say "I need a wife." I was struck by the fact that Alex's mother, whom some people here are vilifying, managed to have a serious career like a man because she had Lola at home to do all the "women's work." This is mostly being overlooked in discussion and I didn't know how to bring it up myself. I appreciate you remarking upon it.

As a male, I'd personally prefer to live a life filled with traditional housewife work. Kids are fun, and I'd like raising them. I like cooking. Cleaning is pretty fun. More than that, though, employment sucks. If you keep me fed, clothed, and with an internet connection, I'd be happy as a clam, even spending eight hours a day doing nothing but housework. I sometimes wonder if there are others who feel this way, espe…

Actually, my girlfriend is the same. She tried working as an employee and even self-employed. But finally, she's happy being a housewife.

My mother and even friends frown upon me. Like I push her to be a housewife. Actually, I supported her working and even helped her to be self-employed. But she's most happy being a housewife.

I think people just want to have a big home, 2 cars annually 2 holidays and that costs a lot of money. Which means both have to work to support this life style. Luckily I make sufficient money to support us both.

Re: My Family’s Slave

#317

Post by creepydata »

sillysaurus3 wrote: post #270
Mz wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have seen career women kind of jokingly say "I need a wife." I was struck by the fact that Alex's mother, whom some people here are vilifying, managed to have a serious career like a man because she had Lola at home to do all the "women's work." This is mostly being overlooked in discussion and I didn't know how to bring it up myself. I appreciate you remarking upon it.

As a male, I'd personally prefer to live a life filled with traditional housewife work. Kids are fun, and I'd like raising them. I like cooking. Cleaning is pretty fun. More than that, though, employment sucks. If you keep me fed, clothed, and with an internet connection, I'd be happy as a clam, even spending eight hours a day doing nothing but housework. I sometimes wonder if there are others who feel this way, espe…

>neither men nor women really have the option of just "being a housewife." We kind of both have to work....in most marriages, both people have to work.

Says who? Sure if you take out a fat mortgage and car loans that require two incomes to repay then, sure, you need two incomes. But you can also just choose to live in a smaller house and drive cheaper cars instead. The issue is the lifestyle inflation that comes with two incomes, it is avoidable.(1)

http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2015/11/04/raising-kids-and-r...

>The median household income for families with two full-time working parents and at least one child under 18 at home is $102,400, compared with $84,000 for households where the father works full time and the mother works part time and $55,000 for households where the father works full time and the mother is not employed.

$55,000 a year provides a good life in 99% of the United States.

BTW, the share of two-parent households in which both parents work full time is only at 46%.

My way of handling two incomes is saving and investing the vast majority of the second income, not spending it. That leaves us in a much better financial position and also a lot of leeway for one or both of us to go without employment for an extended time. The ultimate goal being to retire early. Or at least semi-retire.

Re: My Family’s Slave

#318

Post by [deleted] »

yakult wrote: post #299
throwaway9980 wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It often feels like two income households are counter productive. Sure, we make more money, but it feels like 2x the dollars chasing 1.5x the pie out in the world. And then you have to pay for childcare. As for the household work, I was just telling someone today how much I miss being able to work all the time. I love my kids and they come first, but it's a sacrifice to for me not to work 12+ hour days.

As with almost all optimization problems, applying twice the resources (in this case, work hours) won't bring you back twice the (net) bacon, due to diminishing returns. However, I think on net it is still more economically productive, at least in a large portion of cases. It's unlikely that housework and childcare would optimally take up a full 50% of our entire reservoir of workable-hours, especially in the age of…

[deleted]

Re: My Family’s Slave

#320

Post by DashRattlesnake »

dismantlethesun wrote: post #197
novembermike wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about the slave?

I think there might be some conflation between this story and the article posted. We and the OP don't actually know if the person was enslaved by forced labour. All they know is that they slept on a matt in the kitchen. If they were being paid adequately, I would not call it slavery. Poor labour practice, certainly, and distasteful in the extreme but not the same thing as forced labour and bondage .

> I think there might be some conflation between this story and the article posted.

Yeah. My sense is people are angry at what the OP described, and their anger has clouded their judgment. They're twisting ambiguous stories like lordnacho's into a version of the OP's, so they can play-act their sense of righteous superiority.

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