Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

My Family’s Slave

theatlantic.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

261–270 of 645 posts

Re: My Family’s Slave

#261

Post by emodendroket »

colechristensen wrote: post #259
vacri wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Fine Article mentions a number of times where Lola was not allowed freedom of movement. She had no freedom of movement, no pay (or ability to direct money), no personal life, no say in what she did, and was kept in place by fear. It certainly wasn't the common role of a wife a hundred years ago to be kept from a dying parent, for example. The nature of her labour is not what made Lola a slave; it was the circumst…

It might not have been the nominal role of a wife, but shared characteristics of that life were not uncommon.

It also shared characteristics with the life of an animal that were not uncommon. I think the comparison risks trivializing what is described.

Re: My Family’s Slave

#262

Post by obstinate »

Mz wrote: post #254
obstinate wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or because of how you phrase things, maybe. I won't rule out that I'm prejudiced -- it's all but a certainty that I am, to some extent or another. But despite that, I don't normally think women are asking me for money on the internet.

I am the highest ranked woman on HN because women are generally not all that warmly welcomed here. So if you don't think women are asking you for money on the internet, maybe it is because you are mostly talking to men. It is hard to ask for anything at all when silenced by the general behavior of men online. I offend in part because I fail to shut up, in spite of the sometimes horrible treatment I receive through no…

Your karma is very impressive, to be sure. :)

Re: My Family’s Slave

#263

Post by emodendroket »

randyrand wrote: post #189
valuearb wrote: post #136

Horribly compelling story. When Ulysses S Grants father-in-law died a few years before the civil war, he left them his slave. The Grants were dead broke, Ulysses had failed at farming and the slave was worth a lot of money, they could have worked him or sold him to make the their life instantly better. Instead Ulysses took him to the courthouse and made him a free man. How hard is it to have empathy for others?

> How hard is it to have empathy for others? That really depends on the person. Some people don't have empathy. As a sufferer of DPDR, a lot of times I don't even feel I have emotion.

I think that even people with extreme mental disorders can probably imagine that they themselves would not very much like to be slaves who are beaten and scolded on a whim.

Re: My Family’s Slave

#264

Post by emodendroket »

SanPilot wrote: post #231

My parents were born and have lived in Pakistan for their entire childhood up to adulthood. They then moved to the United States, where I was born and have lived for my entire life. On occasion, I visited my parent's home in Pakistan, although the trips became increasingly scarce as grandparents passed (now all four are gone). The house has always had domestic workers present, a single family. The first few times a m…

I think that is really rather different from being a "domestic worker" who receives no pay and is never allowed to leave the home, however.

Re: My Family’s Slave

#265

Post by Mz »

vacri wrote: post #228
colechristensen wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's like ... slavery-lite. Fundamentally what's the difference between Lola's role and a common role of a wife a hundred years ago?* And second – a dangerous question – is it necessarily wrong? I ask not to lead one to believe to think that it isn't, certainly there are aspects which are unquestionable immoral, but is there room for such a social construct? More importantly, answering why not in a robust way could m…

The Fine Article mentions a number of times where Lola was not allowed freedom of movement. She had no freedom of movement, no pay (or ability to direct money), no personal life, no say in what she did, and was kept in place by fear. It certainly wasn't the common role of a wife a hundred years ago to be kept from a dying parent, for example. The nature of her labour is not what made Lola a slave; it was the circumst…

I am not readily finding citations, but I recall one of my history professors stating that the veil was heralded as a vast improvement for women in terms of freedom in some parts of the world because, historically, women in a lot of places left the house twice in their life: Once to get married, a second time to get buried. The veil allowed them to at least leave the house.

I don't think you know as much about the history of women as you think you do. This is probably not due to personal defect. Most history focuses on the accomplishments of men out in public. The lives of women tend to be more private and a lot of it just does not get recorded or noted. But I am a woman, I have been a history major, I did the homemaker and mom thing for a lot of years and I have had a class in the history of women and have read books out of personal interest on both women's history and the history of slavery.

The role of a wife and mom is often not as different from Lola's as you seem to assume.

Re: My Family’s Slave

#266

Post by bitexploder »

MrLeap wrote: post #148
MrZongle2 wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish I could upvote you more. When this story hit HN earlier today, I was taken aback by how so many of the responses basically were of the hand-clasping, oh-what-a-touching-story nature. This is fucking slavery . There is nothing to admire. Treating slaves-in-all-but-name nicer after the fact does not make it any less repellent. One human being owned another, and had final say regarding all aspects of their lives.…

Phew thanks for making yourself known. This could be bias, but the blob of people on the internet seems to have become a lot more casually sociopathic over the last 15 years. Sure back when folks used to troll for laughs, but it always seemed like a mask to get a rise out of people. I've only noticed people recently openly talking convincingly and casually about weird shit like this. Either A) The world has always be…

I mean....the world is a far better place now than it was 200 years ago. Society has always had weak morals as a whole. It was the few and strong willed that built American society -- with a heavy disdain for the decision making capability of the proletariat. If anything what you see on the Internet simply isn't real. It is a fake and dangerous to absorb ideals from. Some of it is real, but which part?

Re: My Family’s Slave

#267

Post by shitgoose »

achou wrote: post #141

Truly remarkable story. One thing that struck me is that Lola did so much of the work of a traditional mother's role: raising the kids, cooking, cleaning, laundry, and even providing emotional support. The mother had to take on a traditional father's role in bringing home an income. And the actual father - well, he did neither role and seemed to just freeload, gamble, abuse, and finally disappear. All of the work in…

"An argument could be made that the entire capitalist system is built upon uncompensated labor"

right. time to move to venezuela.

Re: My Family’s Slave

#268

Post by pervycreeper »

dbg31415 wrote: post #58

When I was in elementary school in the 80s one of my friends has a "nanny" who slept on a cot in the laundry room in the basement. I didn't think much of it, a few of us had housekeepers and I just imagined a few other people had live-in help too, like on TV shows... A year or two into our friendship, I was over at their house after school and around dinner time I asked if I could stay. The parents said, "Sure, no pr…

> Then stood over her with a clenched fist and yelled at her in a language I didn't understand.

Which language?

Re: My Family’s Slave

#269

Post by creepydata »

dismantlethesun wrote: post #201
jimmywanger wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm objecting to your sentence, saying it's objectively false. Whether or not training another human being is ethical or not is another argument (e.g. children). A dog needs to be taught what is acceptable behavior and what is not acceptable behavior. If you have somebody living with you, they need to be educated on what they can and cannot do. And since dogs and human are pack animals, you need to enforce the idea o…

I understand what you're saying, but his implication is that dogs do not have to be taught not to aspire to be better than dog-status. They cannot be any more than dogs. This is clarified by using an inanimate object (wrench) as a the other example. Human beings though have to be molded in order to keep their 'place'. They can even aspire to want to be things that they cannot achieve, such as my never ending desire t…

Yes, thanks for your accurate well written, and polite reply. I didn't reply myself because I wasn't able to keep my cool.

Re: My Family’s Slave

#270

Post by sillysaurus3 »

Mz wrote: post #162
achou wrote: post #141

Truly remarkable story. One thing that struck me is that Lola did so much of the work of a traditional mother's role: raising the kids, cooking, cleaning, laundry, and even providing emotional support. The mother had to take on a traditional father's role in bringing home an income. And the actual father - well, he did neither role and seemed to just freeload, gamble, abuse, and finally disappear. All of the work in…

I have seen career women kind of jokingly say "I need a wife." I was struck by the fact that Alex's mother, whom some people here are vilifying, managed to have a serious career like a man because she had Lola at home to do all the "women's work." This is mostly being overlooked in discussion and I didn't know how to bring it up myself. I appreciate you remarking upon it.

As a male, I'd personally prefer to live a life filled with traditional housewife work. Kids are fun, and I'd like raising them. I like cooking. Cleaning is pretty fun. More than that, though, employment sucks. If you keep me fed, clothed, and with an internet connection, I'd be happy as a clam, even spending eight hours a day doing nothing but housework. I sometimes wonder if there are others who feel this way, especially women who are mostly forced to work nowadays.

There's a strange sort of situation: In the past, women were forced to be housewives, which was awful. Nobody should be forced to be something they don't want to be. But now that women have the ability to do mostly whatever a man can do, neither men nor women really have the option of just "being a housewife." We kind of both have to work. I wonder if it would be better if, as a family unit, one person decides to do the housewife-type stuff, and the other decides to pursue a career? You could even switch off after a few years. That'd be a pretty ideal life for me, I think. But again, in most marriages, both people have to work.

Post reply on HN