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My Family’s Slave

theatlantic.com

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Re: My Family’s Slave

#151

Post by MrZongle2 »

hkmurakami wrote: post #128
lordnacho wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Going through it in my head now, actually. It seems there's an opportunity to meet my friend in person soon. I'll use it to ask about what exactly happened. It's not the kind of thing that comes across well electronically, you really need to be there in real time looking at the reaction. It also needs to be managed properly because this friend is in a somewhat fragile state for completely separate reasons. The last t…

Perhaps the situation you find yourself in is so egregious that it is "worth" the risk of losing a friendship, possibly troubling your friend even more, and you yourself going through much emotional distress leading up to, and during the conversation. I've been accused by a friend for not doing enough in a much less egregious situation (but also in the category of morality and equality), and understand the social dif…

I upvoted your comment because I think it's the kind of positive, supportive remark seen too rarely online. I say this with complete sincerity.

However, part of your response gave me pause: "I just want to say that your internal turmoil is being discounted too much by other commenters."

I would offer that we cannot underestimate the internal turmoil, stress and emotional trauma of the aforementioned "housekeeper" (slave), who sleeps on a mat in the kitchen, and that any internal turmoil by those of us with freedom pales in comparison.

Immediate, unambiguous action is the only moral response to slavery.

Re: My Family’s Slave

#152

Post by Angostura »

AceJohnny2 wrote: post #111
iaw wrote: post #8

Apparently the author, Alex Tizón died days after finishing the story and never knew it was chosen for the June cover. He was 57.

Alex Tizon built an exemplary career by listening to certain types of people—forgotten people, people on the margins, people who had never before been asked for their stories. [...] Alex did not know that we would be putting his piece on the cover of this issue; he died the day we made that decision, before we had a chance to tell him. How... serendipitous.

A serendipity is a happy accident. I don't this really applies.

Re: My Family’s Slave

#153

Post by [deleted] »

AceJohnny2 wrote: post #111
iaw wrote: post #8

Apparently the author, Alex Tizón died days after finishing the story and never knew it was chosen for the June cover. He was 57.

Alex Tizon built an exemplary career by listening to certain types of people—forgotten people, people on the margins, people who had never before been asked for their stories. [...] Alex did not know that we would be putting his piece on the cover of this issue; he died the day we made that decision, before we had a chance to tell him. How... serendipitous.

[deleted]

Re: My Family’s Slave

#154

Post by Mz »

obstinate wrote: post #97
Chaebixi wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> your feeling of uncomfortness is the only thing stopping you from growing a spine and standing up for such an inhumane treatment > Have some decency and confront your so-called friend. I think your advice falls into the "much easier to say (from a great distance) than do" category. The people who unfailingly and immediately know and do the moral thing, regardless of personal cost or expectation of results, are ofte…

> I think your advice falls into the "much easier to say (from a great distance) than do" category. What of it? You still don't allow people to remain in a state of slavery when it is within your power to free them with just a phone call to the police. It doesn't have to be easy to do to be unacceptable not to do .

You know, I have a life threatening genetic disorder. This is the root cause of my homelessness and the one thing I most need to get my life back is an online income adequate to support myself. I am an active participant on HN and I appear to be the top ranked woman here.

I assure you, no one on HN is valiantly trying to help me solve my financial problems. In fact, I am routinely treated dismissively by people claiming they are not being dismissive and crap like that.

Given that context, it is incredibly difficult for me to read the many remarks on HN in this thread by people claiming unequivocally that they would know the right thing to do by this woman sleeping on the kitchen floor and they would absolutely do the right thing when my experience suggests the exact opposite is probably true of most members here.

Maybe some folks could get down off their high horses and quit making me just spastic today. It would be a kindness, though probably more of a kindness than most of the incredible hypocrites here are capable of.

YEESH.

Re: My Family’s Slave

#155

Post by praneshp »

jstewartmobile wrote: post #108

Most of the guys I went to engineering school with were Indians (Brahmins), and they'd frequently mention how the jobs here paid more, but they still wanted to go back to India because they'd have to treat their servants "differently" here. I just assumed it was a payroll issue. Perhaps I assumed wrongly.

Did you usually ask your Indian clasmates' caste? Or did they volunteer that information themselves?

Re: My Family’s Slave

#157

Post by ArchReaper »

naiveattack wrote: post #146
ArchReaper wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your whole post is disingenuous and full of logical fallacies.[1] >Take a homeless person and let them sleep in your kitchen in exchange for mowing your lawn -> moral hero. This is a flawed thesis if you're still trying to argue w.r.t. lordnacho's post. >Take a homeless person First off, there's no reason to believe that that person was or was not homeless prior to the situation. This is called an "Argument from igno…

My comment was not an argument/direct analogy to the parent. They were a series of observations designed to illustrate a particular/contrasting point. Or rather an attempt to show where the boundaries lie in the grey of such thought. Read the reply again without assuming the parents context. Do you agree with the observations presented?

Morality is an inherently grey subject. Boolean morality only exists in a vacuum. I do agree with your underlying sentiment that it's all about perspective, but I don't feel like you're adding anything to the conversation, as your post could essentially be boiled down to "morality is about perspective" - which, in my personal opinion, falls into the realm of common sense.

However, after reading some of the other comments in this thread, I might have to rethink that. It's interesting to see how many people seem to be unable to see through their own moral outrage.

I think we both are in agreement in sentiment, but I do not think you effectively communicated your ideas in a way that would be beneficial to a constructive discussion. It's too easy for people who disagree with you to point out flaws in your argument as opposed to understanding and discussing your true point.

Re: My Family’s Slave

#158

Post by Jare »

lordnacho wrote: post #84
Jare wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Picture yourself telling this story to your kid one day. Then your kid asking you "and what did you do?" Then yourself telling them what you did or what you did not do. If you are honest throughout that mental exercise, your next steps, whatever they may be, should be a lot easier to take.

Going through it in my head now, actually. It seems there's an opportunity to meet my friend in person soon. I'll use it to ask about what exactly happened. It's not the kind of thing that comes across well electronically, you really need to be there in real time looking at the reaction. It also needs to be managed properly because this friend is in a somewhat fragile state for completely separate reasons. The last t…

Thank you for sharing your original story, and your thoughts and conflicts over the situation you face. I wish you and your loved ones the best.

Re: My Family’s Slave

#159

Post by atemerev »

achou wrote: post #141

Truly remarkable story. One thing that struck me is that Lola did so much of the work of a traditional mother's role: raising the kids, cooking, cleaning, laundry, and even providing emotional support. The mother had to take on a traditional father's role in bringing home an income. And the actual father - well, he did neither role and seemed to just freeload, gamble, abuse, and finally disappear. All of the work in…

Unfortunately, things were no better in Soviet-block countries. Perhaps, working women were a little more common, but it was (and probably still is) a far cry from true equality.

Re: My Family’s Slave

#160

Post by lacampbell »

achou wrote: post #141

Truly remarkable story. One thing that struck me is that Lola did so much of the work of a traditional mother's role: raising the kids, cooking, cleaning, laundry, and even providing emotional support. The mother had to take on a traditional father's role in bringing home an income. And the actual father - well, he did neither role and seemed to just freeload, gamble, abuse, and finally disappear. All of the work in…

An argument could be made that the entire capitalist system is built upon uncompensated labor. Just ask your mom.

Are you insinuating that in a traditional nuclear family, where a father provides all the money for housing, food, clothing and sundry - the mothers house work constitutes "uncompensated labour"? And that this is the basis of capitalism?

What's your humane socialist alternative? Collectivising the children and raising them in a commune?

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