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What was it like to self-learn programming before Stack Overflow? (2016)

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Re: What was it like to self-learn programming before Stack Overflow? (2016)

#191

Post by throwanem »

jaredsohn wrote: post #172
ryanmarsh wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Remember joking with colleagues back then about sourceexchange.com and how that sounded out loud.

penisland was another famous site from the time with this property. Edit: It was a site that sold pens; I think the alternative pronunciation of their domain name was unintentional. Edit 2: I think I was wrong. Snopes says they did sell pens but they chose the name intentionally: http://www.snopes.com/business/names/domains.asp . Some other such names from that link: powergenitalia.com, molestationnursery.com, and wh…

Did it ever actually sell pens? I always understood it to be a joke; if it's been anything else, I'd love to know more.

Re: What was it like to self-learn programming before Stack Overflow? (2016)

#192

Post by pjmlp »

stevekemp wrote: post #183
pjmlp wrote: post #147

I started coding at the age of 10 in the early 80's, using a Timex 2068. My first source of information were the computer provided manuals, with them I got to learn Basic and overall computer architecture. Then back on those days there were lots of books targeted to get kids to learn programming. With them I got to improve my Basic skills, learn Z80 Assembly and enjoy typing Assembly via hexdumps. Later I started rea…

Since you mention "Your Sinclair" you might enjoy this link I posted back a few weeks: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13850548

Thanks, it is interesting.

Horace Goes Skiing definitely brings back memories.

Re: What was it like to self-learn programming before Stack Overflow? (2016)

#193

Post by Jugurtha »

throwanem wrote: post #161
wand3r wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Expert Sex Change You may want to edit... Edit: Well; that explains why the service didn't take off

And I may not. That was the constant nickname back in the day, occasioned by the fact that their original domain was "expertsexchange.com". They later moved to one with a hyphen, but by then the damage was done. (Edit to your edit: It did take off! It was the best we had for years. That best was just very, very bad.)

Here's Peter Norvig explaining this stuff: https://youtu.be/yvDCzhbjYWs?t=24m37s

Re: What was it like to self-learn programming before Stack Overflow? (2016)

#194

Post by pjc50 »

lanstin wrote: post #182
analog31 wrote: post #173

One of my high school math teachers decided to offer a course in BASIC programming, I took it, and was hooked for life. It was in the early 80s, and I was also interested in electronics, so I devoured Byte Magazine every month -- especially Ciarcia's Circuit Cellar . My dad read an article in the Wall Street Journal, about this guy who had the audacity to sell a software app for 39 bucks, and got it for my birthday:…

The old software system was mathematics; you could be absolutely certain that the code was correct, in a way mathematics is correct. The new software system is like biology; you have to perform experiments to see what the truth is; reason fails.

I think that's romanticising the old ways far too much. The famous RISKS DIGEST is over 30 years old.

Re: What was it like to self-learn programming before Stack Overflow? (2016)

#196

Post by fmatthew5876 »

I'm not sure why this is even a question, nobody can learn a subject only from a Q&A tool. You learn programming by reading a comprehensive tutorial(s) or book(s) for the foundations. Then you practice on real problems and research the advanced tools and APIs as needed. If you've got more experienced human mentors you go to them for help. You follow blogs / news articles and watch tech conferences. You get enough experience and solve enough hard problems until you know your tools and how to use them effectively.

Google (of which Stack Overflow is only one of many results) is for when you get stuck on some specific problem and need help. Nowadays we just see Stack Overflow in the search results more often than not. I guess SO means nowadays its easier to find answers to specific questions but I don't see how you could actually learn programming from the bottom up that way. It also encourages blind copy and paste solutions without actually understanding the mechanics of the underlying technical problem.

Stack Overflow is very useful, but you need to take it into context like anything else. Many stack overflow answers are still poor quality, outdated, lacking some context, or just outright wrong. Just because its on the internet and a lot of people have looked at it doesn't mean the right person who really knows the subject matter has not only read the answers but cared enough and had enough free time to produce a good detailed answer.

Re: What was it like to self-learn programming before Stack Overflow? (2016)

#197

Post by rbg246 »

jamesrcole wrote: post #115
smhenderson wrote: post #105

Books. Lots and lots of books. And computer shows where you could pick up boxed software (OS, compilers, etc.) for anywhere from 50 - 90% off. Wasn't until 1995 that I discovered gcc which led to my discovery of GNU/Linux shortly after. Before that I scrimped and saved and waited for trade shows to pick up new books and versions of MS programming tools for DOS, Win 3.1 and then Windows 95. After that I ran a duel boo…

> And computer shows... It's worth pointing out that, for a lot of places in the world, there weren't such things. There certainly weren't where I'm from in Australia

There were a few regular computer fairs in Sydney in the mid 90s but anywhere outside of the main cities...

Re: What was it like to self-learn programming before Stack Overflow? (2016)

#198

Post by abecedarius »

In the 80s we couldn't do the "download code" part. The most interesting code was in books: K&R, Software Tools, Thinking FORTH, SICP, etc. They taught me an implicit lesson that all my code could be that polished and readable; graduating to the working world in the 90s was a shock.

Re: What was it like to self-learn programming before Stack Overflow? (2016)

#199

Post by yeukhon »

I was born in Hong Kong and I lived there until I was 12 years old. Around age of 8, 9, when I was in my 3rd, 4th grade, the school installed a computer lab and we had to take compute class every year. This was around 1999, early 2000. We learned the basics of Words (we loved playing with art work) and we also played with HTML using Dreamweaver. There was no SO and Yahoo was our primary search engine at the time, but we as kids didn't know anything about search engine. So the only way we learned was sitting in class mess around, and then go home and mess around more after downloading the free trials. Later I joined the school's newspaper club (I was the founding member) and we used Dreamweaver and Words to create newsletter. I enjoyed it.

I came to America and I was surprised by the poor computer literacy here, well, at least in my middle school. That was 2003. School were using Mac (first time, I have never seen one in HK, so I thought they were really cool looking), but the teachers would just teach us how to use the outdated Mac Word (whatever it was called back, Apple's own version). I think we did learn one or two lesson of basic HTML, but that was it. Computer class in my middle school was seen as a time break for students. Nothing exciting, teacher would just walk around and check if the student followed what she typed. I also had a single technology class in 9th grade and again teacher didn't care much and we just spent our time watching YouTube (yes, that's around 2005, 2006) or playing GTA on the computer.

I never took AP Computer Science, but I was already learning to use phpBB and started to do some light programming here and there. I don't know if I ever came across SO, but I know I used to just rely on Google search and look at either forums or blog posts. The rise of SO and convenience of Google search meant I didn't have to dig so deep on my own, but I enjoy learning the crust on my own whenever possible.

I am now 25. Although I can't do front-end development, I still believe I am a lucky person having exposed to a good CS education early on.

Re: What was it like to self-learn programming before Stack Overflow? (2016)

#200

Post by mschuster91 »

I learned programming by books and the PHP .chm offline manual mostly (and trial-and error with VB6/VBA). The difficulty was and is that a book is likely to be outdated even before the printing plates are engraved.

It was bad as hell with PHP (which in turn led the PHP core developers to provide backwards-compatibility for ages), but in the JS world which evolves waaaay faster and especially believes that "backwards compatibility" is the devil I will not buy any kind of JS dev book - and also the reason why I shifted from JS frontend work to backend, server ops and security. Stuff there evolves fast (and is plagued by security considerations), too, just look at Docker - but at least you are out of the "I just reasonably understood framework X, version Y but now version Z is out and I can throw everything I learned into the bin" loop which is bound to destroy you sooner or later.

StackOverflow, in contrast, attracts a massive load of users so you're way more likely to find a working example - and usually if it's outdated you'll find someone in the comments mentioning that it's outdated and in most cases even an updated response. What I don't know, however, is if StackOverflow's success is based on the hyper-evolution in the JS scene or if the evolution would not be possible without SO - because there would be no way to distribute the knowledge fast enough.

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