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What was it like to self-learn programming before Stack Overflow? (2016)

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Re: What was it like to self-learn programming before Stack Overflow? (2016)

#181

Post by lanstin »

mixmastamyk wrote: post #167
ska wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hate to think what it would mean to be dependent on SO. I think overall we are agreeing. USENET and various sites were a huge jump from the state of things before hand, when your available resources really depended on location. SO is a more useful interface on top of that stuff and easier to access, but the real innovation was made decades earlier.

Yes, though the "cat is out of the bag" now with SO, so it could be replaced if/when it falters. The next version might implement a versioning strategy, say questions/answers get archived every five years or so.

The nice thing about Usenet is that you had access to real experts. If your question was good enough, you could get an answer from someone that wrote the drivers for the OS you were struggling with or whatever.

Before that, you'd get books out of the library and get a pad of paper and hand-assemble 6502 code and read Byte magazine and if it took a long time, you learned it very very solidly. So I'd say I got a level of deep understanding from hand-assembling code for 6502 that I (as a fogey) doubt I would ever get from any amount of SO reading. Tho my general work flow once I start typing is to google every thing that I can't instantly fix; weird compiler error, cut and paste into search bar, optionally add "stack" to the end and read.

Re: What was it like to self-learn programming before Stack Overflow? (2016)

#182

Post by lanstin »

analog31 wrote: post #173

One of my high school math teachers decided to offer a course in BASIC programming, I took it, and was hooked for life. It was in the early 80s, and I was also interested in electronics, so I devoured Byte Magazine every month -- especially Ciarcia's Circuit Cellar . My dad read an article in the Wall Street Journal, about this guy who had the audacity to sell a software app for 39 bucks, and got it for my birthday:…

The old software system was mathematics; you could be absolutely certain that the code was correct, in a way mathematics is correct. The new software system is like biology; you have to perform experiments to see what the truth is; reason fails.

Re: What was it like to self-learn programming before Stack Overflow? (2016)

#183

Post by stevekemp »

pjmlp wrote: post #147

I started coding at the age of 10 in the early 80's, using a Timex 2068. My first source of information were the computer provided manuals, with them I got to learn Basic and overall computer architecture. Then back on those days there were lots of books targeted to get kids to learn programming. With them I got to improve my Basic skills, learn Z80 Assembly and enjoy typing Assembly via hexdumps. Later I started rea…

Since you mention "Your Sinclair" you might enjoy this link I posted back a few weeks:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13850548

Re: What was it like to self-learn programming before Stack Overflow? (2016)

#185

Post by lanstin »

dhimes wrote: post #143
DonHopkins wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I loved Dr. Dobb's Journal too, and I also really looked forward to each delicious issue of Creative Computing as a kid! Like so many others, I read the Adventure source code and typed in the Star Trek source code. I also loved all the Beagle Bros software and programming tools, and especially their catalogs and ads. (And NO, they were definitely NOT "Brogrammers", they were freaks!) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bea…

+1 Creative Computing

+1 for typing in the Star Trek. Typing in source code is slower than downloading some PyPi thing but it lets you learn faster. At least at first.

Re: What was it like to self-learn programming before Stack Overflow? (2016)

#187

Post by wiz21c »

pjc50 wrote: post #34

I learnt back in the BBC Micro era, when I could get books out of the local library. What I didn't have at that time was a computer - my very first programming had to be done on paper until I could get time on the computers at school. Later I got a Spectrum; later still a PC. It was vital that these came with BASIC. Paying for development tools would not have happened. Eventually I acquired pirated copies of Turbo Pa…

Similar story with an additional twist. In mid 80's, I was 12 years old. At that age the problem was to realize that documentation existed. I had only access to libraries and a few bookshop. There were very few magazines etc. But to have the real knowledge, I had to understand that my books had to be in english, coming from other countries. At my age, that was somehow hard to realize. Knowledge was there but not easily reachable and, in any case, very expensive. My dad helped me a bit but even at 12 y.o. I was further than him so he couldn't help me efficiently (and well, at that time, 12 year old asking to code in assembly language was, well, so unexpected that he may not have known how to help :-))

But those were the days. We had to experiment like hell (any of you tried to understand the RWTS routines to read/write on Apple2 floppies ? :-)

Re: What was it like to self-learn programming before Stack Overflow? (2016)

#188

Post by Animats »

Programming is now integration of large volumes of mediocre code written by others. This is only possible because we can find the problems of that code discussed online. Before that capability, there was more reluctance to reuse existing weakly supported code.

Re: What was it like to self-learn programming before Stack Overflow? (2016)

#189

Post by ska »

lanstin wrote: post #181
mixmastamyk wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, though the "cat is out of the bag" now with SO, so it could be replaced if/when it falters. The next version might implement a versioning strategy, say questions/answers get archived every five years or so.

The nice thing about Usenet is that you had access to real experts. If your question was good enough, you could get an answer from someone that wrote the drivers for the OS you were struggling with or whatever. Before that, you'd get books out of the library and get a pad of paper and hand-assemble 6502 code and read Byte magazine and if it took a long time, you learned it very very solidly. So I'd say I got a level…

Yes. There is a lot more information out there now, but the average quality is a lot lower. This isn't unreasonable given the growth of the industry, and the number of people who do at least some programming as part of their job but are mostly doing glue programming. These days that's the majority of a much larger group, thought it used to be much smaller.

Re: What was it like to self-learn programming before Stack Overflow? (2016)

#190

Post by kpil »

agentultra wrote: post #65

I started in the late 80s. Around the final wave of the "every child must be taught BASIC and programming so they don't get left behind" movement. Sound familiar? I had the manual that came with my computer and a library that archived copies of Byte and Compute! I mostly re-typed in games and messed around with those. In the 90's I guess computers were pretty normal to me. So when I wanted to make computer games like…

I'm probably around the same age, and was learning c++ in the early 90s.

I can't remember how I got hold of sources to study or the tools. I probably downloaded every source example I could find from BBSes and fidonet. I distinctly remember finding a pirated SAS-C copy and that disk also contained a really nice c++ tutorial.

In my professional life, Stevens unix and network books helped me alot. I still have them.

The real turning point came with the Internet, and when I started to use Linux in 94.

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