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Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

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Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#421

Post by ashark »

masklinn wrote: post #107
OJFord wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't used Windows since 7, but then it just did whatever it could (perhaps only download) until shutdown/restart. It might've asked if I wanted to, but I just said no, and then it did it's thing whenever I was shutting down anyway. Is it not still like that? MacOS seems worse to me, since restarting when an update exists isn't sufficient: you have to remember to go back to the update and click 'update & restart'…

> Is it not still like that? MacOS seems worse to me, since restarting when an update exists isn't sufficient: you have to remember to go back to the update and click 'update & restart'... IME OSX is way better, the shutdown update process is much shorter than on Windows (where it is frustratingly long) and not all updates require rebooting.

I only got around to updating my personal MBP to Sierra today. A major OS version upgrade took less time and messed with my stuff less than some Win10 updates have. :-/

Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#422

Post by supernovae »

jessaustin wrote: post #419
supernovae wrote: post #390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is fixed. When you upgrade to RS2 it asks you about the services and you can disable them and you can disable automatic updates. BTW, this isn't unique to MS.. phones update all the time and the concept of the phone is going to change.. soon you will have just one device that does everything. Are people going to complain that MS can't then do what Apple/Google do in regards to spying, updates & patches?

...soon you will have just one device that does everything. That's already true, for people who only have a phone. In the long term, it's completely wrong. Today's "super"-devices will explode into a constantly-changing constellation, as soon as personal networking is ironed out. Future generations will laugh at caricatures of people today, who constantly tend to and obsess on one hunk of plastic to the exclusion of…

as the IoT and "constellation" "explodes" we can only HOPE that includes auto-update.

Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#423

Post by windwake12 »

supernovae wrote: post #406
CydeWeys wrote: post #403

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disabling it is tweaking. The default install of Windows 10 comes with ads and all sorts of other bullshit that doesn't benefit the user (in an operating system that you paid hundreds of dollars for , mind you). You have to go out of your way to opt out of it, and most users will not ever realize that such opting out is even possible.

Even the ads will ask you if you want to disable them.. "click here to disable future notifications" or if you open notification center you can "click here to disable future notifications". I am slightly bemused we're making excuses for people not trying anything.. especially when computers these days are all about "Expressing yourself" and "identity"..

I shouldn't have to use gpedit to disable ads that consistently appears when using certain windows features, and which have no "Don't ask me again".

Presumably some freak compatability issue (I've noticed ads always appear when I open files using a certain program).

Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#424

Post by jessaustin »

supernovae wrote: post #417
jessaustin wrote: post #415

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes because humans should work for computers not the other way around.

computers are customizable for a reason and software always requires human interaction to be updates/useable.. most people are OK with their iPhone updating itself and its apps and showing related apps -not sure why that's so hard for windows users to adopt.

Any process can be more or less usable. GP described a setup in which the user is responsible for noticing that updates are available. That is just terrible.

Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#425

Post by supernovae »

supernovae wrote: post #406
CydeWeys wrote: post #403

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disabling it is tweaking. The default install of Windows 10 comes with ads and all sorts of other bullshit that doesn't benefit the user (in an operating system that you paid hundreds of dollars for , mind you). You have to go out of your way to opt out of it, and most users will not ever realize that such opting out is even possible.

Even the ads will ask you if you want to disable them.. "click here to disable future notifications" or if you open notification center you can "click here to disable future notifications". I am slightly bemused we're making excuses for people not trying anything.. especially when computers these days are all about "Expressing yourself" and "identity"..

Google does those "Ads" when you open anything google-y without google..

if we're playing this game, we should play it fairly.

Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#426

Post by CydeWeys »

noja wrote: post #49
CydeWeys wrote: post #4

I love the way he's compared the people who tell you to turn off auto-updates with anti-vaxxers; it's quite an apt analogy. Microsoft shares part of the blame here for pushing features that the user clearly doesn't want through updates (especially to the major OS version). Look at the recent ads in Windows file explorer for one example. A lot of the advice to turn Windows Update off is a misguided response to Microso…

> I love the way he's compared the people who tell you to turn off auto-updates with anti-vaxxers; it's quite an apt analogy. This is a good analogy, but does it work in different circumstances? (Apologies for the derail) Over on Android , the apps have got so big (and the storage was until recently so small) that automatic updates _cannot_ be installed - the new apps are too big, the phone is full. What do we do the…

This is only a problem if your phone is completely full and you refuse to delete anything off it, no? Most of the space on my phone is taken up by photos and videos I've taken off it, and I wipe out the local copies periodically since everything is backed up in Google Photos anyway.

Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#427

Post by Rebelgecko »

post_break wrote: post #313
kristianc wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article points out that you can set hours when Windows will update.

I run two OS's on my computer. Sometimes the clock gets out of wack. Guess which OS decided to update during working hours because the clock got it wrong.

Have you had the issue where Windows updates fuck around with your EFI partition and break your bootloader? I've gone through that one a few times

Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#428

Post by arca_vorago »

harrygeez wrote: post #312
sangnoir wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Microsoft shares part of the blame here for pushing features that the user clearly doesn't want through updates (especially to the major OS version). Look at the recent ads in Windows file explorer for one example. A lot of the advice to turn Windows Update off is a misguided response to Microsoft's own bone-headed moves in recent years to install bullshit that the user doesn't want. Vaccinations are awesome, but M…

Alright man. Can you tell me which consumer-facing OS doesn't do those that you mentioned by default? Apple downloads setup files for major OS upgrades as well as system updates automatically without my consent too. I don't want Siri on my Mac too. How can I get back the enlarge window button without holding down alt on the Mac? Google Chrome is the software that pioneered the whole silent update thing. If you want t…

With that qualifier I am willing to bet you aren't considering GNU+linux a "consumer facing os"?

I also far too often see this logicaL fallacy being used. I was recently railing against MS and someone said, "well I'm more worried about facebook, what about them?" Your comments about OSX and Chrome have almost nothing to do with the the current discussion topic which is MS updates systems. I wish people would stop doing this equivicating, it's tiring and logically fallacious.

A person can call out any company they want for anything they want on the merits of their argument without it having to turn into a major company comparison.

All that said... gnu+linux actually allows the user control, and things like this can be stopped.

Bottom line is this, either the user controls the program, or the program controls the user. Google, Apple, and MS have all shown they are more concerned with controlling the user than giving them freedom. GNU+linux or really just GNU, is the future of freedom, and until people start understanding how inherently political software is, and stop basing their software choices purely on pragmatics (but mah lozedoze gaming!), these types of problems will continue to happen and have things written about them, but the solution is already here.

Stop using closed source proprietary systems.

Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#429

Post by valuearb »

supernovae wrote: post #374
novaleaf wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think this is the reason why most people (non tech savvy) look to turning off Windows Update. Most people don't know/care about Windows Update pushing features. However most people DO care when their computers spontaneously reboot themselves with no warning (sometimes even in the middle of "active hours"!) which is what msft has set by default (and indeed has/had no UI to modify in some versions of Win10)

This is now fixed.. But inversely, i'm annoyed that this "upgrade phenomena" seems squarely targeted at Microsoft when people who run Linux or OSX upgrade the second new shiny comes out. I'm not ranting here other than expressing a curiosity of culture that leads to cultural problems lingering much longer than they should. Windows 10 is awesome.. the experiment with "ads" sucks but its all tweakable.. just jump to Rs…

No Microsoft sucks. It's my computer, stop hijacking it. This is why I switch to a Mac.

Microsoft is 100% responsible for this malware, they trained users to turn off updates by making them unbearable.

Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#430

Post by CydeWeys »

Declanomous wrote: post #283
viraptor wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're generalising over a whole bunch of devices with different specs. Sure, there was a problem with updates on the 8gb devices. But that was few hardware cycles ago, around 2.3. Now, those devices are around 1% usage, mostly have dead batteries and other components and it's hard to find a new Android device which lacks space for upgrades. What to do? Upgrade the hardware. It's not supported anyway. Modern Android…

I have this problem with a 16 GB flagship. Android alone uses 6.50 GB of my storage. I'm on Android 6.0. Apps take up 6.32 GB of storage on my phone. The remaining space is taken up by the app cache. This isn't useless information like you'd expect, but it turns out it is data that is vital to the operation of my apps. I clear it fairly often, but it fills right back up again within a day. Luckily I have an SD card s…

16 GB is now small by modern smartphone standards, unfortunately. Your hardware is obsolete. It is what it is. The minimum memory size on new non-budget smartphones is now 32 GB, and on the balance of things, the correct trade-off has probably been made to keep making progress rather than maintain perfect compatibility with older hardware. The technology and industry is still evolving so rapidly that your phone does become obsolete in a few years. It's not stupid, it's a logical consequence of the rate of progress. All sorts of technologies on automobiles went obsolete very quickly within the first decade after the invention of cars, too.
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