What was it like to self-learn programming before Stack Overflow? (2016)
131–140 of 290 posts
Re: What was it like to self-learn programming before Stack Overflow? (2016)
#132Re: What was it like to self-learn programming before Stack Overflow? (2016)
#133it SUCKED. You really had to rtfm (and hope that the fm was good) or depend on google to find the right topic on a given forum (dreamincode, for ex) and hope that that topic didn't devolve into a shouting match over something that had NOTHING to do with your search query. it took much longer to get anything done. Writing code these days is SUPER easy. Write stuff, run or compile it, get an error, search Google for sa…
At the same time, language APIs have exploded. In 1998, you could literally memorize all of a language like ColdFusion. External libraries existed, but weren't as depended on like gems or node modules are today.
However, I think your statement is very true for certain classes of applications. For example, many Rails apps are very much gluing things together. Michael Hartl in his popular tutorial even describes "Googling the error" as an actual technique.
Re: What was it like to self-learn programming before Stack Overflow? (2016)
#134Re: What was it like to self-learn programming before Stack Overflow? (2016)
#135In terms of using Stack Overflow to help you track down a problem? The answer, of course, is found in this relevant xkcd: https://xkcd.com/979/
The next worst is when there are only a handful of search results and the top one is a forum post with replies saying the answer is easily available, and the OP should have used Google first. The remaining results being archives of that first one.
Re: What was it like to self-learn programming before Stack Overflow? (2016)
#136My method of learning was to save web pages to a USB flash drive on an internet-connected computer, and study them, or copy them, or modify them on my computer until I understood and was able to create my own documents. Learning PHP was a similar exercise, augmented by a downloaded copy of PHP's documentation manual.
Stackoverflow definitely made answering questions much quicker, but I also think that it made it so easy to quickly get things working that I lost the practice of having to understand and fix things through deep study.
Re: What was it like to self-learn programming before Stack Overflow? (2016)
#137Earlier quoted context omitted.
They are right - SO is a better version, but the majority of impact came from having the information globally searchable at all. Heck, even searchable USENET indices had a huge impact, pre Web. And SO still suffers from the same basic problems they all had - "good" answers get stale, information tends to clusters around simple/beginner problems, etc.
There were programmer sites/mailing lists before that where knowledgeable people gathered, and today you can search directly on SO, or use DDG as I do. Also, I used AltaVista before google, and often got answers there, though success was less frequent. Therefore, at no point in time have I been dependent on google, though it was helpful about five to ten years ago. So, my impression is that SO was the bigger innovati…
I think overall we are agreeing. USENET and various sites were a huge jump from the state of things before hand, when your available resources really depended on location. SO is a more useful interface on top of that stuff and easier to access, but the real innovation was made decades earlier.
Re: What was it like to self-learn programming before Stack Overflow? (2016)
#138An alternative to the PDP-8 was the one class in writing Cobol on a mainframe. You had to hand write code on a huge ledger sheet, translate that into punched cards, submit a job, and wait a couple days for the result. Most of my coder buddies thought that was a joke.
Instead we stuck with PDP-8. Because the computer was shared by several schools, there was a huge inter-school rivalry. We would hack accounts, and write incendiary messages in the other school's directory, which could only be erased by writing assembly code.
When I went to university, the first computer science courses still used punched cards. The classes were incredibly boring: with PL-1 examples of how to move pieces around a chess board. No AI. In high school, we were already writing chess player programs, multi-user star wars, compression, social engineering, and infinite precision math packages.
So, I was a bit judgmental about the quality of the University courses and missed out on some important lessons. My first language was Basic. So, my code was a meandering mess of spaghetti. It took a years to unlearn that self-inflicted pedagogical brain damage.
Now, with SO + Git, coding feels like assembling flat-packed Ikea furniture.
[UPDATE] grammar
Re: What was it like to self-learn programming before Stack Overflow? (2016)
#139Re: What was it like to self-learn programming before Stack Overflow? (2016)
#140The Internet has obviated the need for comprehensive books for the bulk of contemporary programming. I suppose there are obscure enough and/or proprietary platforms that still follow the "comprehensive documentation" approach, but it seems it's possible for widely used tooling to be poorly documented and rely on online forums to fill in the gaps with crowd sourced answers and examples. This makes "mind share" crucial to the usability of a language/platform.
I am sometimes frustrated with the contemporary model, but the old way wasn't a panacea either; just broken differently. If you want a good taste of "what it was like" find the manuals for Turbo C++ 3.0 (1991.) You'll learn things about C/C++ that you've never seen written down anywhere.