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Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

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Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#361

Post by noxToken »

kijin wrote: post #352
noxToken wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not that MS is completely without fault, but we have to remember that they're supporting an infinite amount of configurations. Apple's OSX (on the other hand) is supposed to support a limit configuration controlled by Apple. It's a recipe for disaster.

Supporting an infinite number of configurations has nothing to do with installing arbitrary apps that you never wanted, automatically changing your default apps and wallpaper, and silently turning back on various spying "features" that you had intentionally turned off.

I was mainly replying to this line:

> I should be able to tell my friends "yes, you should turn on auto updates, there's absolutely no reason not to"

The anniversary update was mainly a shit show. It was a staggered update that cause issues for many folks. Some people kept getting fail update errors. Others got stuck in boot loops. Others lost certain device functionality. If you were able to get it to successfully install without hitch, it broke some things for a non-trivial amount of people.

Your comment is spot on, but it's not what I was talking about.

Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#362

Post by Qwertious »

Arizhel wrote: post #342
vocatus_gate wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked in Antarctica last year, a "winter-over" contract as combination Network Engineer/Glacier Search and Rescue (GSAR) team member, at one of the very small U.S. research stations. In the atmospheric/climatology lab there are a number of computers running very specific versions of Windows (down to specific patches) tailored to really obscure science research software packages, some industry standard, most custom…

That was the researchers' fault for using Windows as the platform for all this work. They should have known better.

That's only second-order responsibility, and assumes we accept that Microsoft is the primary cause of the problem.

Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#363

Post by SippinLean »

eiji wrote: post #28
CydeWeys wrote: post #4

I love the way he's compared the people who tell you to turn off auto-updates with anti-vaxxers; it's quite an apt analogy. Microsoft shares part of the blame here for pushing features that the user clearly doesn't want through updates (especially to the major OS version). Look at the recent ads in Windows file explorer for one example. A lot of the advice to turn Windows Update off is a misguided response to Microso…

Taskbar > Context menu > Cortana > ( Hidden / Show icon / Show search box )

Just include disabling it in the script you run after install

https://gist.github.com/alirobe/7f3b34ad89a159e6daa1

Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#364

Post by GlobalServices »

sangnoir wrote: post #68
CydeWeys wrote: post #4

I love the way he's compared the people who tell you to turn off auto-updates with anti-vaxxers; it's quite an apt analogy. Microsoft shares part of the blame here for pushing features that the user clearly doesn't want through updates (especially to the major OS version). Look at the recent ads in Windows file explorer for one example. A lot of the advice to turn Windows Update off is a misguided response to Microso…

> Microsoft shares part of the blame here for pushing features that the user clearly doesn't want through updates (especially to the major OS version). Look at the recent ads in Windows file explorer for one example. A lot of the advice to turn Windows Update off is a misguided response to Microsoft's own bone-headed moves in recent years to install bullshit that the user doesn't want. Vaccinations are awesome, but M…

My business partner's 16-year-old kid is a hardcore "gamer" who thinks he's smarter than Microsoft.

I set up a PC for him with a legal, licensed copy of Windows 10, and he promptly reset it using a pirate/cracked version of LTSB because he didn't want the "Windows 8 stuff" and he didn't want "Microsoft spying on him"

Within 2 days it was full of viruses and malware. I don't let him plug his computer in to our office network, and I don't let him near any of our office computers.

Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#365

Post by kijin »

oneeyedpigeon wrote: post #137
chrischen wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

MacOS handles this perfectly. It clearly notifies you when an update will be installed if you restart.

It also gives you the option of re-trying the update "tonight" which takes up WAY too much of my cognitive load. "Tonight" doesn't appear to be configurable, or even well-defined, although an obscure knowledge-base article tells me it's between "2:00 and 5:00 a.m", which is nothing like my expectation of what "tonight" means. Does that run if my laptop is sleeping? What about if it needs to reboot? I really should kn…

Windows does sometimes wake up a laptop to apply updates and put it back to sleep afterwards.

This can be rather dangerous if your laptop is stuck in a backpack with no airflow on a hot day.

Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#366

Post by josefx »

Qwertious wrote: post #327
josefx wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"pro user" is an interesting way to put it. If I remember correctly it was heavily integrated with IE in the past to push browser share. Want to update your system? Open buggy old IE5/6. Want to get rid of IE? What antitrust? IE is part of essential Windows functionality after all, we can't get rid of it. > Get back to me when MS starts remembering their customers are human beings again. Oh, they know. Their whole ab…

The comment said Windows update was pro-user, not Microsoft.

Well we can argue wether a knife is pro or con user when Microsoft stabs said user in the back with it. Microsoft would say that it provides a secure (tm) resting place for the users hat and is not only very pro-user in doing so but also important for the continous operation of said hat. My point is just that, Microsoft used Windows Update to push unwanted software in the past and as such Windows Update was never entirely a pro-user software, something always undermined by Microsofts willingness to put its own goals above its users needs.

Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#367

Post by GlobalServices »

harrygeez wrote: post #312
sangnoir wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Microsoft shares part of the blame here for pushing features that the user clearly doesn't want through updates (especially to the major OS version). Look at the recent ads in Windows file explorer for one example. A lot of the advice to turn Windows Update off is a misguided response to Microsoft's own bone-headed moves in recent years to install bullshit that the user doesn't want. Vaccinations are awesome, but M…

Alright man. Can you tell me which consumer-facing OS doesn't do those that you mentioned by default? Apple downloads setup files for major OS upgrades as well as system updates automatically without my consent too. I don't want Siri on my Mac too. How can I get back the enlarge window button without holding down alt on the Mac? Google Chrome is the software that pioneered the whole silent update thing. If you want t…

It's amazing how many people defend Apple while attacking Microsoft here. It's almost as if Apple pays people to do this.

We run Windows 10 and the lastest Windows server on all our machines and don't have problems because we have good, in-house, local IT people and also good security on the edge routers.

Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#368

Post by Qwertious »

ZoFreX wrote: post #148
bigbugbag wrote: post #84

Does this guy work for microsoft ? It reads like a partisant piece for microsoft. Totally overlooked the suspicious timeline of Microsoft releasing patched for vulnerabilities that were exploited for a long time by the NSA right after it was made apparent those had been stolen and were about to be released in the wild. No question asked about NSA having known and exploited those vulnerabilities for a while, no questi…

> No mention that disabling Microsoft update trend is a logical answer No, it isn't. Disabling update isn't a logical answer to _anything_ except "what's the best way to get malware". If you don't want Microsoft's "spyware" don't install their OS. There is no coherent logic to simultaneously not trusting Microsoft, and running their code - any version of it.

Nobody's disputing that security updates are objectively good. The problem is that Microsoft pushes antifeatures through the "security updates only" channel.

So it's a trade-off: Security threats or antifeatures.

Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#369

Post by Qwertious »

emodendroket wrote: post #241
vocatus_gate wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. In THEORY you're more vulnerable to exploits in the wild by disabling Windows Update. In REALITY you're statistically FAR more likely to be harassed and have your software/apps/OS break due to Microsoft's "very similar to malware-style" forced updates. I disabled Win10 updates over 1.5 years ago with zero issue. Security people love to claim the sky is falling, but it's all about risk/reward. Risk of issue due to…

Yeah, who can forget that Microsoft update that locked all your files unless you paid a ransom in Bitcoin.

Microsoft literally pushed adware and spyware on Win7/8 users.

Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#370

Post by UK-AL »

cartoonfoxes wrote: post #348
UK-AL wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If software worked every convincible use case, it would become impossible to use from UI perspective. Windows 10 is focused as a consumer os, designed for users to run their applications. Similar to iOS or android. If you want to run batch operations, use the right product.

> If you want to run batch operations, use the right product. Sorry, but this does come across as a bit asinine. What's the right product for running software written for Microsoft Windows, if not Microsoft Windows? "Users running their applications" isn't just Grandma on Facebook, or your little sister playing Candy Crush Saga. Microsoft's unquestionable strength has been it's support for enterprise, small-business…

Most of those are products that are not expected run over night in batching mode.

You may get the need to have things to run overnight using engineering, simulation, rendering products with some sort of long running process. But these normally have server component that you install onto Windows Server, which the client offloads to.

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