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Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

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Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#321

Post by Arizhel »

sangnoir wrote: post #68
CydeWeys wrote: post #4

I love the way he's compared the people who tell you to turn off auto-updates with anti-vaxxers; it's quite an apt analogy. Microsoft shares part of the blame here for pushing features that the user clearly doesn't want through updates (especially to the major OS version). Look at the recent ads in Windows file explorer for one example. A lot of the advice to turn Windows Update off is a misguided response to Microso…

> Microsoft shares part of the blame here for pushing features that the user clearly doesn't want through updates (especially to the major OS version). Look at the recent ads in Windows file explorer for one example. A lot of the advice to turn Windows Update off is a misguided response to Microsoft's own bone-headed moves in recent years to install bullshit that the user doesn't want. Vaccinations are awesome, but M…

I disagree about the CIA analogy, because having your DNA collected really doesn't harm you or affect you significantly, though it is a privacy violation.

Here's a better analogy: suppose you were pushed to get a vaccination, but the vaccine company secretly added a virus to the vaccine which alters your DNA so that your hands turn into claws and you grow antlers, because they thought this would be a great idea somehow. Then after word gets out about this, they say anyone who doesn't get this vaccine is an "anti-vaxxer" and "ignorant". That's basically what Microsoft did.

(reference for the body modifications: http://dilbert.com/strip/2004-04-18)

Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#322

Post by Arizhel »

sangnoir wrote: post #68
CydeWeys wrote: post #4

I love the way he's compared the people who tell you to turn off auto-updates with anti-vaxxers; it's quite an apt analogy. Microsoft shares part of the blame here for pushing features that the user clearly doesn't want through updates (especially to the major OS version). Look at the recent ads in Windows file explorer for one example. A lot of the advice to turn Windows Update off is a misguided response to Microso…

> Microsoft shares part of the blame here for pushing features that the user clearly doesn't want through updates (especially to the major OS version). Look at the recent ads in Windows file explorer for one example. A lot of the advice to turn Windows Update off is a misguided response to Microsoft's own bone-headed moves in recent years to install bullshit that the user doesn't want. Vaccinations are awesome, but M…

>Additionally, Microsoft abused the update system to download an entire, multi-GB OS (Windows 10) on systems running on Windows 8, "just in case they will want to upgrade". This was very expensive for people on metered bandwidth. Microsoft should separate critical updates from the less critical ones and give users the ability to opt-in for critical updates only.

Why should they do this? And why should they care at all about people on metered bandwidth? What are Microsoft users going to do if they don't like getting a huge bill for downloading Win10 unexpectedly? Stop using MS? Not likely.

When are people going to wake up and realize that Microsoft has absolutely zero incentive to worry about keeping their customers happy?

Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#323

Post by digi_owl »

ziikutv wrote: post #319

I have Windows 10 Education version, completely legal. But I have been "restarting to apply the patch" for the past four days and it always reverts itself. I am stuck in a loop.. This is why I turned off updates.

Ugh, that. Had it on a Home install some time back.

Best i could tell was that MS was trying to update some drivers, this failed badly, had to be reverted, but that still left the relevant patch in the queue, and so Windows would try again on next reboot.

Finally had to resort to some kind of downloaded wizard from Microsoft to blacklist the patch. Not sure if that will be possible on the education version (or am i confusing it with the more recent S edition?).

Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#324

Post by bargl »

Why are so many comments about how much people hate Microsoft?

This article isn't advocating for Microsoft, it's advocating AGAINST turning off automatic updates whether that is from a Linux distro, Apple, Microsoft, Google, etc.

Just update your device/computer, if you don't like the OS switch, if you want a specific patch etc, maybe that should be run in a VM which is gated. But for 99% of users, do not recommend they turn off auto updates.

Also, remember that if you are reading this you are probably a power user. You are not my grandmother reading an article by a power user with simple enough to follow instructions to f- her computer up. There are multiple user bases, and your advice to non-tech people can be disastrous for them.

Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#325

Post by qudat »

ziikutv wrote: post #319

I have Windows 10 Education version, completely legal. But I have been "restarting to apply the patch" for the past four days and it always reverts itself. I am stuck in a loop.. This is why I turned off updates.

I ran into this problem as well. I was in a constant loop where it would try to update, fail, then revert. My bootup time went from one minute to 20 minutes.

I disabled windows updates and haven't had a problem since.

Being someone that regularly uses all three major platforms, Windows 10 has definitely been the worst experience.

Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#326

Post by wvenable »

jamespo wrote: post #13
kefka wrote: post #9

And the reason why people were suggesting to turn off Windows Update was precisely because of malware payloads directly from Microsoft. "Do you want to upgrade to Windows 10? Press the hidden button to cancel, otherwise upgrade commences." This is how malware works.... But published and pushed by MS's own channels. And his jab at people who say that turning off WU is similar to anti-vaxxers is completely inane and fa…

No, most people turned it off because they didn't want updates interrupting them. You are vastly overestimating who cares about "MS malware".

For example, my wife had to work from home one day -- fairly rare occurrence -- and it was at that moment at 9:00am that Windows 10 decided to update and reboot with no way to cancel and the entire process took well over an hour.

That should be unacceptable and I don't know why it's not.

I have updates set to download but not install automatically and I periodically manually install them. Microsoft's active-hours thing is BS too as it must be less than 12 hours. I honestly don't care as much if my machine reboots between 1:00am and 7:00am but apparently that's not enough time.

Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#327

Post by Qwertious »

josefx wrote: post #294
vocatus_gate wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. "Some of the blame"? Try "all of the blame." Windows Updates used to be pro-user. Now they're pro-Microsoft (pushing things Microsoft wants) and anti-user (routinely pushing 'features' no one wants or asked for). I disabled it a long time ago and haven't looked back. Get back to me when MS starts remembering their customers are human beings again.

"pro user" is an interesting way to put it. If I remember correctly it was heavily integrated with IE in the past to push browser share. Want to update your system? Open buggy old IE5/6. Want to get rid of IE? What antitrust? IE is part of essential Windows functionality after all, we can't get rid of it. > Get back to me when MS starts remembering their customers are human beings again. Oh, they know. Their whole ab…

The comment said Windows update was pro-user, not Microsoft.

Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#328

Post by wvenable »

rhodysurf wrote: post #95
kristianc wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article points out that you can set hours when Windows will update.

This still isnt always useful. I work in an office that creates and runs CFD software. It often takes days, or weeks to run and the recent windows "feature" of rebooting when it wants to update with no way to shut it off has killed so many peoples work in progress. Its insane there is no ability to only update manually.

The pro version lets you update manually; it's a setting and doesn't require you turn off services (I know because that's what I do).

Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#329

Post by freehunter »

Qwertious wrote: post #309
digi_owl wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sadly MS is hardly the first to have done something like that, but they are the biggest and most prominent name right now. People avoid doing firmware updates on various devices for the same reason, as there is no indication what will change or go missing (never mind that it likely will reset the device, and thus require a full reconfigure before being useful again). The basic problem of our world is that it is ruled…

"The basic problem of our world is that it is ruled by 20-sometings that loath working on "old" tech. The epitome of this is the FOSS world that goes through a wrenching rewrite churn every 5 years or so as new heads take over "old" projects." Disagree thoroughly. The reason why people push shit through the security-updates channel is because of money and structural pressure from management to ensure adoption of the…

It's funny that I see the general sentiment over Windows 10 to be the opposite of Python 3. "Everyone" is mad Microsoft pushed Windows 10 too hard, meanwhile "everyone" is trying to get people to adopt Python 3 and wondering why it took big name libraries so long to convert.

It's a big problem in tech, trying to get people to update. We might like to think of ourselves as progressive, but a lot of people in our world tend to be very conservative and resistant to change. Microsoft knows that as well as anyone else. The only way to ensure people are using the latest version is to stop giving them a choice. You can't always rely on people making the best choice for themselves.

That sounds super authoritarian, sure, but the nice thing about technology? Microsoft isn't the only game in town. They can do whatever they want with their platform and you're free to leave. You don't need a passport, or any more money, or really even any additional knowledge at this point. You're only locked in if you choose to be locked in.

*with "everyone" being the typical Internet strawman that only actually exists in a random selection of HN comments.

Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#330

Post by digi_owl »

Freak_NL wrote: post #210
vocatus_gate wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked in Antarctica last year, a "winter-over" contract as combination Network Engineer/Glacier Search and Rescue (GSAR) team member, at one of the very small U.S. research stations. In the atmospheric/climatology lab there are a number of computers running very specific versions of Windows (down to specific patches) tailored to really obscure science research software packages, some industry standard, most custom…

> Of course Microsoft blasts Win10 installer files down our very expensive, very slow satellite link […] The lesson there is that you should always quarantine computers that need to be pinned on very specific versions of an OS, especially in such a precarious setting! Those computers should not have been able to communicate over the internet at all, except for those cases where communication is part of their purpose…

Could be it had been sitting down there for years without any incident.

Best i recall, MS was very very insistent with their Win10 "upgrade". To the point that they relabeled the installer patch as critical (aka, reserved for pushing 0-day patches or similar) after people found they could change certain settings to make it go away.

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