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After 15 years of practice..

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Re: After 15 years of practice..

#21

Post by studer »

tudorachim wrote: post #14
FalconNL wrote: post #3

Interestingly, if you multiply 15 years by 365 days and the two hours a day mentioned at some point in the article, you get 10,950 hours, which is remarkably close to Malcolm Gladwell's claim from the book Outliers that it takes 10,000 hours to become a superstar at something.

The claim originally came from the Cambridge Handbook of Expertise and Expert Performance ( http://www.amazon.com/Cambridge-Expertise-Performance-Handbo... ).

Umm, that's a bit backwards -- the 10k hours number comes from research by K. Anders Ericsson et al, and the first papers mentioning this are from the early nineties, if not earlier (as for book references, it's discussed in Ericsson's "The Road To Excellence" that predates the Cambridge Handbook by a decade).

Re: After 15 years of practice..

#22

Post by arnorhs »

amanfredi wrote: post #16
johngalt wrote: post #7

Note how people went straight from assuming he "just didn't have singing ability" to "you're lucky to be born with singing ability" It's suprising how often years of hard work is trivialized as "luck" or "inherent ability".

As long as I can remember, I've been a good singer. I've also always enjoyed singing, so the thousands of hours of practice accumulated during childhood, in the car, in the shower, etc. didn't really seem like "hard work". I wouldn't say I've had to work to develop my singing ability in the same way Derek has.

That's a good point. Did your parents sing with you? Are they "musical" (ie. play instruments or such)?

Re: After 15 years of practice..

#23

Post by electromagnetic »

sahaj wrote: post #12
abstractbill wrote: post #6

When people say "X is a gift, you were lucky to be born with it", they're probably trying to give themselves an excuse to not put in the effort needed to get good at that thing.

unless you are a good 7' basketball player.

7' tall basketball players are only good because the game is played inefficiently. Shorter players have a distinct advantage when throwing underarm and can get ridiculous score percentages. Tall players throwing 'properly' are taking a side-shot at the goal rather than confronting the problem head on by going vertical.

Basketball is such a bastardised sport that height and speed are the dominant skills at play in the sport. No accuracy is required when the majority of your goals are scored by (using a soccer term) walking it into the goal. It's pathetic and boring.

The entire point of the sport is that the goal is high to challenge players to exhibit accuracy that is rarely routinely (and especially not consistently) required in other sports. Yet that doesn't exist any more in the NBA it's circus freaks putting balls through a hole instead of sportsmen exhibiting great accuracy like an archer.

Re: After 15 years of practice..

#24

Post by TheSOB88 »

electromagnetic wrote: post #23
sahaj wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

unless you are a good 7' basketball player.

7' tall basketball players are only good because the game is played inefficiently. Shorter players have a distinct advantage when throwing underarm and can get ridiculous score percentages. Tall players throwing 'properly' are taking a side-shot at the goal rather than confronting the problem head on by going vertical. Basketball is such a bastardised sport that height and speed are the dominant skills at play in the…

But if it works, why not?

Re: After 15 years of practice..

#25

Post by lanstein »

electromagnetic wrote: post #23
sahaj wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

unless you are a good 7' basketball player.

7' tall basketball players are only good because the game is played inefficiently. Shorter players have a distinct advantage when throwing underarm and can get ridiculous score percentages. Tall players throwing 'properly' are taking a side-shot at the goal rather than confronting the problem head on by going vertical. Basketball is such a bastardised sport that height and speed are the dominant skills at play in the…

Ok, I have to ask: When was the last time you watched basketball? Nobody showing great accuracy? Ray Allen? Kobe Bryant?

Re: After 15 years of practice..

#26

Post by caryme »

lanstein wrote: post #5

I've actually found that pitch and rhythm issues like this often come not from a lack of ability, but from a phenomenon where the person hears what they intend to hear, rather than what they're actually singing/playing. Extremely focused, repeated work with a tape recorder will bridge the gap between perception and reality in a hurry.

Also, in a phenomenon somewhat unique to singing, what you hear just isn't what others hear. For example, sometimes people will modify their technique such that their voice sounds very resonant to them, but externally the sound doesn't carry. Sometimes in these cases, listening to a recording can be very helpful, if not a bit shocking. One of the difficulties of learning to sing is learning what good feels like rather than what good sounds like.

Re: After 15 years of practice..

#27

Post by george_morgan »

limist wrote: post #13
FalconNL wrote: post #3

Interestingly, if you multiply 15 years by 365 days and the two hours a day mentioned at some point in the article, you get 10,950 hours, which is remarkably close to Malcolm Gladwell's claim from the book Outliers that it takes 10,000 hours to become a superstar at something.

Yes, and unlike singing, programming can be comfortably done for more than 2 hours a day, without much risk of long-term body/voice damage. :)

Although incorrect posture over 10,000 hours sounds like a recipe for RSI.

Re: After 15 years of practice..

#28

Post by stratospark »

limist wrote: post #13
FalconNL wrote: post #3

Interestingly, if you multiply 15 years by 365 days and the two hours a day mentioned at some point in the article, you get 10,950 hours, which is remarkably close to Malcolm Gladwell's claim from the book Outliers that it takes 10,000 hours to become a superstar at something.

Yes, and unlike singing, programming can be comfortably done for more than 2 hours a day, without much risk of long-term body/voice damage. :)

Watch out for the carpal tunnel.

Re: After 15 years of practice..

#29

Post by myth_drannon »

I listened to his first and last songs and too me his voice sounds almost the same (taking in consideration the age difference). I think it's partially our self confidence that influences our talents. After 15 year he says, "Yeah, I practiced so much, for SURE I'm much better!" and from now on he is the best. He radiates confidence because he now knows he is good and people around him feel it as well and think he is great. The moment your brain is free from self-limitation you just fly , sadly for most humans it happens after so many years .... C'est la vie...

Re: After 15 years of practice..

#30

Post by BRadmin »

electromagnetic wrote: post #23
sahaj wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

unless you are a good 7' basketball player.

7' tall basketball players are only good because the game is played inefficiently. Shorter players have a distinct advantage when throwing underarm and can get ridiculous score percentages. Tall players throwing 'properly' are taking a side-shot at the goal rather than confronting the problem head on by going vertical. Basketball is such a bastardised sport that height and speed are the dominant skills at play in the…

I think you're talking about H.O.R.S.E... the game of basketball includes something called defense, which generally calls on productive offenses to be faster / stronger / taller.
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