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After 15 years of practice..

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Re: After 15 years of practice..

#11
post #7

Note how people went straight from assuming he "just didn't have singing ability" to "you're lucky to be born with singing ability" It's suprising how often years of hard work is trivialized as "luck" or "inherent ability".

You see this a lot on tv, where people survive a plane crash and thank the lord, rather than the pilot and engineers. Or are cured of cancer and thank god, rather than the team of surgeons and years of hard working medical scientists.

Re: After 15 years of practice..

#13
post #3

Interestingly, if you multiply 15 years by 365 days and the two hours a day mentioned at some point in the article, you get 10,950 hours, which is remarkably close to Malcolm Gladwell's claim from the book Outliers that it takes 10,000 hours to become a superstar at something.

Yes, and unlike singing, programming can be comfortably done for more than 2 hours a day, without much risk of long-term body/voice damage. :)

Re: After 15 years of practice..

#14
post #3

Interestingly, if you multiply 15 years by 365 days and the two hours a day mentioned at some point in the article, you get 10,950 hours, which is remarkably close to Malcolm Gladwell's claim from the book Outliers that it takes 10,000 hours to become a superstar at something.

The claim originally came from the Cambridge Handbook of Expertise and Expert Performance (http://www.amazon.com/Cambridge-Expertise-Performance-Handbo...).

Re: After 15 years of practice..

#15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And at the same time, for many people it's an insidious way to reduce other people's accomplishments so that they don't feel inferior in comparison.

Maybe, but I don't think that most people who say this are trying to belittle their idol, rather complement them on the fact that they have a greater skill than others. That no matter how much time someone else puts into it, they will never be as good. And there is some truth to this. You are born a good jocky, most people couldn't train hard to be that small.

I'm not saying it's always conscious, or that this applies to everything. But I think it has a lot to do with how you see the world, and whether you have what Carol Dweck would call a growth mindset or a fixed mindset.

I wrote about this a few years ago:

http://michaelgr.com/2007/04/15/fixed-mindset-vs-growth-mind...

I think it applies to many things, and too few people are aware of the distinction.

Re: After 15 years of practice..

#16
post #7

Note how people went straight from assuming he "just didn't have singing ability" to "you're lucky to be born with singing ability" It's suprising how often years of hard work is trivialized as "luck" or "inherent ability".

As long as I can remember, I've been a good singer. I've also always enjoyed singing, so the thousands of hours of practice accumulated during childhood, in the car, in the shower, etc. didn't really seem like "hard work". I wouldn't say I've had to work to develop my singing ability in the same way Derek has.

Re: After 15 years of practice..

#18
I think there's truth to this, but I also disagree strongly with the idea that if you're not good at something you haven't practiced enough.

Especially in certain fields — music, design, and programming all fit I think — there is a huge amount that many people just seem to get or not.

I have a degree in music, so I've seen a lot while I was in school. Yes, some people can work really hard and eventually get it, but I don't think that's everyone.

Especially when it comes to ear training, I know a lot of people who have tried really, really hard, but can't seem to develop the skills. I've seen this in many people, even with great teachers, resources, and tons of practice. I think some people have a fundamental difference in how their minds understand music.

I think this can be seen in the idea that certain programmers are 10x more productive than others, and that most "programmers" can't really program at all, even after years of school.

Re: After 15 years of practice..

#20
post #5

I've actually found that pitch and rhythm issues like this often come not from a lack of ability, but from a phenomenon where the person hears what they intend to hear, rather than what they're actually singing/playing. Extremely focused, repeated work with a tape recorder will bridge the gap between perception and reality in a hurry.

This is really true for me. I've been singing for a few years, and I'm still really bad. But I noticed that my pitch wasn't good all the time and had a hard time correcting it.

Now I try to focus on each note and listen to the tone I'm actually singing and that corrects the whole thing. I also pull myself into a kind of a mode where I hit the notes.

But I'm still not good, but at least my pitch has changed dramatically in the last couple of years or so.

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