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Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

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Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#301

Post by type0 »

vocatus_gate wrote: post #204
sumanthvepa wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Out of curiosity, would it not have been a better idea to build your experiments/software on Linux or a BSD variant? Was it a lack of software drivers for your equipment? Given the precise control you can get over the operating environment on these OSes, you can pretty much ensure that the environment your programs run under will never change.

They weren't "my" experiments - I was the station network engineer with double-duty as helpdesk/IT person. Imagine this: you're a broke grad student and you're given $xx grant money to conduct a certain experiment in N months. What are you going to spend your VERY limited time+money on? Finding a good Linux hardware developer to roll some custom solution that no one can understand or support? Or just throw together s…

What are you going to spend your VERY limited time+money on? Finding a good Linux hardware developer to roll some custom solution that no one can understand or support?

Just install some distro and "just throw together some hacky Python". If you had some hardware and measurement instruments that require Windows for drivers then I could understand it, otherwise it's just negligence.

> or .net MVP that will run on Windows which practically anyone in the world can troubleshoot with basic knowledge?

In my experience people who claim that they could troubleshoot Windows is usually just that - they claim it but rarely can they actually fix anything.

I don't know, maybe Windows is that much better and easier to use for everyone and I just can see it - who knows...

Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#302

Post by pjc50 »

viraptor wrote: post #176
noja wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I love the way he's compared the people who tell you to turn off auto-updates with anti-vaxxers; it's quite an apt analogy. This is a good analogy, but does it work in different circumstances? (Apologies for the derail) Over on Android , the apps have got so big (and the storage was until recently so small) that automatic updates _cannot_ be installed - the new apps are too big, the phone is full. What do we do the…

You're generalising over a whole bunch of devices with different specs. Sure, there was a problem with updates on the 8gb devices. But that was few hardware cycles ago, around 2.3. Now, those devices are around 1% usage, mostly have dead batteries and other components and it's hard to find a new Android device which lacks space for upgrades. What to do? Upgrade the hardware. It's not supported anyway. Modern Android…

I still resent having to upgrade my 8G Moto G over essentially this issue. The lack of visibility into what's using the space is infuriating - the pie chart does not cut it.

Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#303

Post by digi_owl »

yorwba wrote: post #82
noja wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I love the way he's compared the people who tell you to turn off auto-updates with anti-vaxxers; it's quite an apt analogy. This is a good analogy, but does it work in different circumstances? (Apologies for the derail) Over on Android , the apps have got so big (and the storage was until recently so small) that automatic updates _cannot_ be installed - the new apps are too big, the phone is full. What do we do the…

In my case, buy a large SD card to put the apps on, then find out that only the primary storage can hold apps. I think this limitation has been lifted in more recent Android versions, but - of course - I can't upgrade. Moving all my photos and ebook .pdfs off did alleviate the burden somewhat, but hasn't completely solved it. My current workaround for very large apps is to uninstall, redownload, install. Apparently,…

Best i can tell, what Android does is download a delta patch.

Then apply that to a local copy of the previous APK.

If that goes well, it attempts to install the new APK alongside the old install.

And if that works out, the user data is switched over and the old install and APK removed.

So at certain points during the install you need to have enough space for two full installs of the app, and the APKs they came in.

Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#304

Post by jakub_g »

CydeWeys wrote: post #4

I love the way he's compared the people who tell you to turn off auto-updates with anti-vaxxers; it's quite an apt analogy. Microsoft shares part of the blame here for pushing features that the user clearly doesn't want through updates (especially to the major OS version). Look at the recent ads in Windows file explorer for one example. A lot of the advice to turn Windows Update off is a misguided response to Microso…

It would also help if Windows 10 didn't restart the machine automatically in the least favourable time, when you just went to make yourself a tea while having a zillion of programs opened, and the process didn't end up with a blue screen (both happened to me in the last few months; ok ok they allow now to choose "inactive hours" or whatever it's called, but initially you had a choice between "restart now" or "restart in 10 minutes", really dark pattern to impose things on users).

But yeah I get a notif when the update is available and I install it whenever possible.

Regarding unwanted features, have you tried Classic Shell / Classic Start Menu? Literally first thing I install on a new Windows installation.

Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#305

Post by rhino369 »

throwaway2048 wrote: post #191
bigbugbag wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The anti-vaxxers analogy is utter nonsense and reads like a poor attempt at hitting the credibility of people disabling windows update. The anti-vaxxer movement makes no sense outside the backfire effect, in almost all cases it has little to no basis or justifications. On the other hand there is a long history of very valid reasons of distrusting windows update and disabling it. Using windows update to force people i…

Id say the comparison would actually make sense if vaccines DID give you autism.

Vaccines can have negative effects. Both that is overwhelmed by the positive effects.

Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#306

Post by fwn »

TremendousJudge wrote: post #280
fwn wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can disable the update service. It works since at least Windows 98 and takes maybe 5 clicks.

I think you can't after the anniversary update

Maybe there is another Windows versions difference I am not aware of.

In my configuration this is still working. I went to services.msc and searched for "Windows Update". I stopped the service, went to its preferences and selected "Disabled" as startup type.

Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#308

Post by digi_owl »

pjc50 wrote: post #302
viraptor wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're generalising over a whole bunch of devices with different specs. Sure, there was a problem with updates on the 8gb devices. But that was few hardware cycles ago, around 2.3. Now, those devices are around 1% usage, mostly have dead batteries and other components and it's hard to find a new Android device which lacks space for upgrades. What to do? Upgrade the hardware. It's not supported anyway. Modern Android…

I still resent having to upgrade my 8G Moto G over essentially this issue. The lack of visibility into what's using the space is infuriating - the pie chart does not cut it.

The lack of visibility is partially because apps can store files in various locations.

Outside of the app binaries and such you have their core data, stuff that gets generated or downloaded on first run.

Besides that you have a cache directory pr app that is housed outside of the tree location of the binaries and main data.

More recent Android versions have introduced yet more complications on this via the storage access framework, by providing APIs that give apps limited RW access to "external" storage areas without having to request the related permission.

And that's without going into the whole history of just what "external" means when dealing with Android file storage.

Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#309

Post by Qwertious »

digi_owl wrote: post #298
sangnoir wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Microsoft shares part of the blame here for pushing features that the user clearly doesn't want through updates (especially to the major OS version). Look at the recent ads in Windows file explorer for one example. A lot of the advice to turn Windows Update off is a misguided response to Microsoft's own bone-headed moves in recent years to install bullshit that the user doesn't want. Vaccinations are awesome, but M…

Sadly MS is hardly the first to have done something like that, but they are the biggest and most prominent name right now. People avoid doing firmware updates on various devices for the same reason, as there is no indication what will change or go missing (never mind that it likely will reset the device, and thus require a full reconfigure before being useful again). The basic problem of our world is that it is ruled…

"The basic problem of our world is that it is ruled by 20-sometings that loath working on "old" tech. The epitome of this is the FOSS world that goes through a wrenching rewrite churn every 5 years or so as new heads take over "old" projects."

Disagree thoroughly. The reason why people push shit through the security-updates channel is because of money and structural pressure from management to ensure adoption of the company's new $THING.

Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#310

Post by tsukikage »

My PC is not a toy, and is owned by me, not by you.

* Don't reboot it without my consent

* Don't install/run advertising without my consent

* Don't install/run spyware without my consent

* Don't keep interrupting my work to nag me for my consent

The tasks I want to accomplish using my PC are more important to me than the tasks you want to accomplish using my PC. If the latter get in the way of the former, I will take whatever steps are necessary to prevent this from happening.

One might reasonably claim that allowing Windows Update free reign prevents malicious software installing itself on my PC and introducing undesirable behaviour.

However, if the introduction of undesirable behaviour by malicious software is a risk, but the introduction of undesirable behaviour by Microsoft a certainty, the incentives do not favour enabling automatic updates.

The best solution, of course, is to switch to a stable Linux distro.

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