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Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

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Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#251

Post by emodendroket »

Silhouette wrote: post #250
emodendroket wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what you're proposing is, in effect, running an OS outside of its support window.

Not at all. The support window for Windows 7 was advertised as going up to 2020. It should be possible to install important security updates without anything else changing as a side-effect until that time. It should also be possible to look up those updates and know what you're getting before choosing to install them, to make sure they really are security updates. That's not so much a matter of trust, it's a matter o…

But if you're installing and running the security updates then you're back to trusting Microsoft. How can you verify the patches are all exactly what they purport to be?

Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#252

Post by setq »

rhodysurf wrote: post #188
UK-AL wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would assume the large majority of windows users doing batch stuff over night are businesses. At that point you should probably be using windows server + wsus. Which give you a lot more control over updates.

Our company has a dc but not that kind of control over child computers and it would be a large overhaul (and out of my control) to change the whole network setup. I wish we used wsus though. M

You can attach a GPO to the OU that the machines are in and turn it off for everyone.

Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#253

Post by mattmanser »

vocatus_gate wrote: post #198
enzanki_ars wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EDIT: Didn't recognize the username at first. I still have some doubts, but I do remember you talking about going to Antarctica in the Tron subreddit. I recently used Tron, and I hope that there isn't some undocumented part of the script that is disabling automatic updates. I have some doubts about this story... The forced Windows 10 update was only sent to non-enterprise versions of Windows. I highly doubt any of th…

> I have some doubts about this story.... I highly doubt any of these experiments were running the home editions of Windows I guess you've never worked with budget-constrained grant projects before. > I do remember you talking about going to Antarctica in the Tron subreddit 7 months on ice. > I hope that there isn't some undocumented part of the script that is disabling automatic updates. Tron doesn't perform ANY und…

So, no offence, but this reads more like you and your colleagues destroyed a multi-million $ project by trying to save a few dollars by using Windows Home instead of Enterprise?

And you're pissed at MS because of this?

Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#254

Post by SimpleXYZ »

kstenerud wrote: post #230
JorgeGT wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your CFD software isn't saving at least the last converged timestep in order to restart the calculation if there's an unplanned interrupt maybe you should implement such a feature! It's been a lifesaver for me many times.

That's right. Blame the victim.

Indeed, the blame clearly lies with Microsoft.

One of the reasons I choose a PC over a Mac is because I want to decide things for myself. Microsoft's updates seem very Appleish to me.

All they need is large text that says something like, "You are more likely to get viruses, malware, randomware, etc if you uncheck this setting." Heck, make them confirm the choice two or three times. Some people want to risk it, some people need to risk it. Let them, it's their machine and their data.

Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#255

Post by UK-AL »

bigbugbag wrote: post #248
UK-AL wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would assume the large majority of windows users doing batch stuff over night are businesses. At that point you should probably be using windows server + wsus. Which give you a lot more control over updates.

So what about the small majority ? Do they get a "sorry not sorry, f*ck you" card ? You should assume that windows users doing batch stuff over night are people who have better things to do with their computers during their day or want their computer to work for them while they're not sitting in front of it. Try considering the whole instead of splitting to only address the large majority.

If software worked every convincible use case, it would become impossible to use from UI perspective.

Windows 10 is focused as a consumer os, designed for users to run their applications. Similar to iOS or android.

If you want to run batch operations, use the right product.

Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#256

Post by Silhouette »

emodendroket wrote: post #251
Silhouette wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not at all. The support window for Windows 7 was advertised as going up to 2020. It should be possible to install important security updates without anything else changing as a side-effect until that time. It should also be possible to look up those updates and know what you're getting before choosing to install them, to make sure they really are security updates. That's not so much a matter of trust, it's a matter o…

But if you're installing and running the security updates then you're back to trusting Microsoft. How can you verify the patches are all exactly what they purport to be?

Trust isn't black and white. Of course you can't 100% verify any update without personally decompiling and analysing exactly what it contains, but you can take reasonable precautions before installing them. You might be willing to trust that a security patch described as fixing a specific vulnerability such as the one we're discussing here is at least trying to do what it says if no-one has reported otherwise after a while, without being willing to trust Microsoft as a whole to push only genuine security updates without supervision.

Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#258

Post by bigbugbag »

setq wrote: post #247
bigbugbag wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I fill the gas tank because I monitor the fuel gauge, not because it warns me that it's nearly empty. Using an appropriate analogy to make something clearer works better than shoehorning something to push your view. I plug my laptop to charge the battery when convenient and operate in a geographical area where power shortages are still an exception so I have no fuel issue in my computer usage whether I use automatic…

> I fill the gas tank because I monitor the fuel gauge, not because it warns me that it's nearly empty. You are better than 99% of users which is what this issue is about. You are a power user capable of looking after a machine. The problem the people who aren't.

I'm not better than others, the contrary even. Everybody learns to do this when the nearest gas station is far enough that you will probably not make it there by the time the fuel warning lights up. Now it has become a habit for me.

Assuming that things work the same elsewhere as they do around you is akin to self-deception.

I'm probably leaning towards the power user category of computer users nowadays, but I wasn't born that way I learned it the hard way by having to deal with Microsoft's crap for years. Now it has become a habit too.

Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#259

Post by Godel_unicode »

Tarean wrote: post #150
phr4ts wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The degradation is intentional. In Windows phone, speech to text and quiet hours doesn't work, and the accuracy of shape writing is significantly reduced, when Cortana is switched off. Ms is trying to turn Cortana into the Google play services of Windows So they can consensually(forcefully) collect data from every windows device.

I'd guess that means speech to text and shape writing run at least partially on servers? Not hugely surprising but it seems really bizarre that quiet hours would need it. Probably some integration with cortanas contact database so that some people's messages come through? Even that seems incredibly lazy and ill thought out.

There's no need to guess, at least in the PC version of Windows 10 Microsoft explicitly says this is the case. No one should be surprised that this is the case for Windows, given that other speech/shape recognition is similarly degraded with cloud support turned off.

Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#260

Post by kuschku »

emodendroket wrote: post #241
vocatus_gate wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. In THEORY you're more vulnerable to exploits in the wild by disabling Windows Update. In REALITY you're statistically FAR more likely to be harassed and have your software/apps/OS break due to Microsoft's "very similar to malware-style" forced updates. I disabled Win10 updates over 1.5 years ago with zero issue. Security people love to claim the sky is falling, but it's all about risk/reward. Risk of issue due to…

Yeah, who can forget that Microsoft update that locked all your files unless you paid a ransom in Bitcoin.

Well, there were Microsoft updates that did make all your files inaccessible.

Try doing the Windows 10 anniversary upgrade if you run bitlocker and have customized your UEFI.

Windows will screw up, bluescreen, and destroy the bitlocker keys.

I’ve fought with that before.

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