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Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

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Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#241

Post by emodendroket »

vocatus_gate wrote: post #163
ZoFreX wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No mention that disabling Microsoft update trend is a logical answer No, it isn't. Disabling update isn't a logical answer to _anything_ except "what's the best way to get malware". If you don't want Microsoft's "spyware" don't install their OS. There is no coherent logic to simultaneously not trusting Microsoft, and running their code - any version of it.

No. In THEORY you're more vulnerable to exploits in the wild by disabling Windows Update. In REALITY you're statistically FAR more likely to be harassed and have your software/apps/OS break due to Microsoft's "very similar to malware-style" forced updates. I disabled Win10 updates over 1.5 years ago with zero issue. Security people love to claim the sky is falling, but it's all about risk/reward. Risk of issue due to…

Yeah, who can forget that Microsoft update that locked all your files unless you paid a ransom in Bitcoin.

Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#242

Post by Silhouette »

moonshinefe wrote: post #183
cesarb wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a question of trust. That user no longer trusts WU to not silently install Windows 10. The window might have closed, but who says it won't open again suddenly, or a WU bug won't make it think it's still inside the window?

Silently installing Win10 from Win7 at this point after the window has long closed would be a massive controversy and utterly unprecedented in the industry. Updates introducing bugs is always a possibility on any platform Windows or otherwise, so the suggestion is just to stop installing security updates? Please.

Silently installing Win10 from Win7 at this point after the window has long closed would be a massive controversy and utterly unprecedented in the industry.

So was pushing the original Windows 10 update from Windows 7. That didn't stop them.

Once bitten, twice shy.

Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#243

Post by kuschku »

viraptor wrote: post #176
noja wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I love the way he's compared the people who tell you to turn off auto-updates with anti-vaxxers; it's quite an apt analogy. This is a good analogy, but does it work in different circumstances? (Apologies for the derail) Over on Android , the apps have got so big (and the storage was until recently so small) that automatic updates _cannot_ be installed - the new apps are too big, the phone is full. What do we do the…

You're generalising over a whole bunch of devices with different specs. Sure, there was a problem with updates on the 8gb devices. But that was few hardware cycles ago, around 2.3. Now, those devices are around 1% usage, mostly have dead batteries and other components and it's hard to find a new Android device which lacks space for upgrades. What to do? Upgrade the hardware. It's not supported anyway. Modern Android…

What? On 2.3, the average device had 250M internal storage for apps.

A Moto G 2015 has only 8GB storage.

Even mid-range devices sold today only come with 8GB storage, of which 6GB are used by the OS.

Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#245

Post by emodendroket »

kristianc wrote: post #8
chrisacky wrote: post #2

I was on a internal Slack call with team the other day, I ended up having to restart to Windows to do a screenshare and switch to Skype. I ended up having to delay my working day by about 45 minutes while Windows decided to do a mandatory update without any granularity of choice on when is convenient for me. That's what is frustrating. I ended up being unproductive for a whole hour because Windows forced an update on…

The article points out that you can set hours when Windows will update.

Still, the default settings can be annoying.

Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#246

Post by emodendroket »

pawadu wrote: post #43
vezycash wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if Microsoft instead fixed the need to restart for almost every update?

For that matter, why are we seeing so many updates? It seems 1/4 of my CPU cycles are used to keep the system up to date. ChromeOS updates the system once every 6 weeks and still has a far more secure system.

ChromeOS also does a lot less.

Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#247

Post by setq »

bigbugbag wrote: post #218
setq wrote: post #11

I don't know why people complain about updates and restarting, particularly in this thread. You fill your car up with fuel regularly because it has been warning you it's nearly empty for a while much like updates remind you regularly. People seem to complain and say "it updated right when I was in the middle of X" but they've been putting it off for ages. Do you break down in the middle of the motorway when you run o…

I fill the gas tank because I monitor the fuel gauge, not because it warns me that it's nearly empty. Using an appropriate analogy to make something clearer works better than shoehorning something to push your view. I plug my laptop to charge the battery when convenient and operate in a geographical area where power shortages are still an exception so I have no fuel issue in my computer usage whether I use automatic…

> I fill the gas tank because I monitor the fuel gauge, not because it warns me that it's nearly empty.

You are better than 99% of users which is what this issue is about. You are a power user capable of looking after a machine. The problem the people who aren't.

Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#248

Post by bigbugbag »

UK-AL wrote: post #157
cartoonfoxes wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no idea why this scenario gets talked about so little. It is an edge case, but its a huge edge-case. There are entire ecosystems of Windows-only software where running batch operations overnight are a daily fact of life. I'm nearly resigned to the fact that I may have to segregate engineering workstations to their own network and whitelist their traffic. IsActiveHoursEnabled is ignored.

I would assume the large majority of windows users doing batch stuff over night are businesses. At that point you should probably be using windows server + wsus. Which give you a lot more control over updates.

So what about the small majority ? Do they get a "sorry not sorry, f*ck you" card ?

You should assume that windows users doing batch stuff over night are people who have better things to do with their computers during their day or want their computer to work for them while they're not sitting in front of it. Try considering the whole instead of splitting to only address the large majority.

Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#249

Post by gwbas1c »

The problem with Microsoft updates is that they are so intrusive that the purpose of your computer is to run updates. They interrupt you when you're trying to use your computer, or they cause hour-long startup times.

I've never had such intrusive updates on Mac or Android.

Perhaps Microsoft needs to figure out how to make updates much more seamless. You shouldn't need a 2-hour reboot in the middle of editing a word file just to protect against malware.

Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#250

Post by Silhouette »

emodendroket wrote: post #240
Silhouette wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no coherent logic to simultaneously not trusting Microsoft, and running their code - any version of it. Of course there is. Many of us found Windows 7 to be a useful OS and trusted Microsoft of that era to produce it. That doesn't necessarily mean we trust Microsoft of this era or more recent Microsoft products to be something we want to use. There is no logical incompatibility here. They've simply changed t…

So what you're proposing is, in effect, running an OS outside of its support window.

Not at all. The support window for Windows 7 was advertised as going up to 2020. It should be possible to install important security updates without anything else changing as a side-effect until that time. It should also be possible to look up those updates and know what you're getting before choosing to install them, to make sure they really are security updates. That's not so much a matter of trust, it's a matter of Microsoft meeting the commitments it gave when people chose to buy its OS before, and verifying that this is happening without just taking their word for it.
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