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Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

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Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#181

Post by keldaris »

beagle3 wrote: post #126
keldaris wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally, I run a single Win10 desktop (all of my laptops are Linux-only) that I update roughly annually, by allocating an entire day for going through the updates one by one and getting rid of any Microsoft malware along the way. I am far more concerned about Microsoft's own malware than any ransomware floating around the Internet. Of course, I've also had SMBv1 disabled for many years (there's no reason to retain…

Are you aware of https://www.reddit.com/r/TronScript/ ? Sounds like it could save you a lot of time (and, if you do things that are not yet in Tron, you could help the community as well by adding those things).

I am, and I actively recommend it to anyone sufficiently well educated that they could (and would) go through the contents of the script manually and verify its contents. I don't do anything additional that could be automated in a general fashion, but my own scripts (partly based on Tron) include custom things specific to my setup - adjusting router/firewall settings, interacting with my automated backups, etc.

Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#182

Post by darrmit »

torrent-of-ions wrote: post #59
CydeWeys wrote: post #4

I love the way he's compared the people who tell you to turn off auto-updates with anti-vaxxers; it's quite an apt analogy. Microsoft shares part of the blame here for pushing features that the user clearly doesn't want through updates (especially to the major OS version). Look at the recent ads in Windows file explorer for one example. A lot of the advice to turn Windows Update off is a misguided response to Microso…

Also for forcing restarts for everything. Back when I cared I needed to I used to use ksplice to patch linux without rebooting. If Microsoft made something like this it would stop people switching off the updates.

This is by far my biggest issue with MS updates. Every time I come in and my computer has rebooted itself I want to smash something.

Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#183

Post by moonshinefe »

cesarb wrote: post #168
moonshinefe wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The window for the free 7 -> 10 update is long gone, turn your updates back on and install security updates until they run out in 2020.

It's a question of trust. That user no longer trusts WU to not silently install Windows 10. The window might have closed, but who says it won't open again suddenly, or a WU bug won't make it think it's still inside the window?

Silently installing Win10 from Win7 at this point after the window has long closed would be a massive controversy and utterly unprecedented in the industry. Updates introducing bugs is always a possibility on any platform Windows or otherwise, so the suggestion is just to stop installing security updates? Please.

Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#184

Post by sumanthvepa »

vocatus_gate wrote: post #158
vezycash wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is exactly my situation. Worse, ever used a wifi network slowed to a crawl by different laptops updating windows? I once had to turn off updates on all laptops in my workplace so we could use the internet. (They thought the network was under a virus attack)

I'm Army Reserve and we frequently have this problem in field exercises. Fire up some Win10 laptops on our very limited Verizon MiFi access point, they promptly download gig's of updates without consent and immediately push the bandwidth past the limit and the AP gets throttled to oblivion. Yeah yeah you can turn of Windows updates or whatever, but you shouldn't have to do that just to force Microsoft to respect your…

Windows 10 has the option of specifying that a specific network is a metered connection. It won't update the OS when connected to those networks. Found this out the hard way after getting a big bill while traveling and tethering to my phone's 4G connection.

Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#185

Post by mseebach »

Silhouette wrote: post #146
mseebach wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A good firewall would protect from WanaCrypt No, unfortunately not - it spread using SMB internally on LANs, but travelled internet-to-LAN by "regular" phishing. It downloads its payload off the internet, but most good firewall would allow that (was the WannaCry payload detectable by virus scanners at the time of the infection? A "good" firewall might be one expected to intercept and scan all downloads). > A legiti…

If you operate such devices, it is an absolute imperative that you have a procedure for taking them offline regularly for updates In some contexts that simply isn't a viable strategy. As an extreme example, consider something like an implanted medical device that needs to run 24/7 for the rest of a person's life, which can only be replaced via surgery under hospital conditions, and for which any failure is already a…

Yes, things are complicated, but airlines manage to routinely take $100m devices out of service for days to months for servicing, so it seems like a bad excuse that a hospital can't plan around taking any given device offline for a few hours every couple of years.

Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#186

Post by enzanki_ars »

vocatus_gate wrote: post #154
retox wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe at one point the windows 10 complete installer was downloaded to everyone, 'just incase' they decided to install. Really narrow-minded behaviour.

I worked in Antarctica last year, a "winter-over" contract as combination Network Engineer/Glacier Search and Rescue (GSAR) team member, at one of the very small U.S. research stations. In the atmospheric/climatology lab there are a number of computers running very specific versions of Windows (down to specific patches) tailored to really obscure science research software packages, some industry standard, most custom…

EDIT: Didn't recognize the username at first. I still have some doubts, but I do remember you talking about going to Antarctica in the Tron subreddit. I recently used Tron, and I hope that there isn't some undocumented part of the script that is disabling automatic updates.

I have some doubts about this story... The forced Windows 10 update was only sent to non-enterprise versions of Windows. I highly doubt any of these experiments were running the home editions of Windows due to the lack of control. Also, I am pretty sure that running home versions of Windows in contexts like this is against the Windows TOS.

Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#187

Post by keldaris »

nu5500 wrote: post #109
keldaris wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally, I run a single Win10 desktop (all of my laptops are Linux-only) that I update roughly annually, by allocating an entire day for going through the updates one by one and getting rid of any Microsoft malware along the way. I am far more concerned about Microsoft's own malware than any ransomware floating around the Internet. Of course, I've also had SMBv1 disabled for many years (there's no reason to retain…

Really? You're more concerned about the software being provided to you by Microsoft, who is at least presumably trying to keep you as a satisfied customer and provide a secure operating system then you are for faceless hackers connected to the Internet who's whole objective is to either out right steal people's money, disrupt people's lives, or else subvert your computer in order to launch attacks on other users?

> who is at least presumably trying to keep you as a satisfied customer and provide a secure operating system

I seriously question that presumption. I think Microsoft is generally trying to satisfy enough of my needs to keep me in their ecosystem while extracting as much value as they possibly can (within legal, technical and business constraints) from collecting data on me, pushing ads, etc.

I'm certainly not saying Microsoft are "more malign" (by whatever moral standard) than hackers out to steal people's money, however, by virtue of using Windows, I automatically have a degree of exposure to Microsoft that can only be mitigated rather than eliminated altogether. My exposure to ransomware and other non-targeted attacks by non-state actors is vastly smaller, and much easier to mitigate.

I am under no illusions about my ability to withstand targeted attacks by more competent parties, but that isn't a particularly significant concern to me.

Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#188

Post by rhodysurf »

UK-AL wrote: post #157
cartoonfoxes wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no idea why this scenario gets talked about so little. It is an edge case, but its a huge edge-case. There are entire ecosystems of Windows-only software where running batch operations overnight are a daily fact of life. I'm nearly resigned to the fact that I may have to segregate engineering workstations to their own network and whitelist their traffic. IsActiveHoursEnabled is ignored.

I would assume the large majority of windows users doing batch stuff over night are businesses. At that point you should probably be using windows server + wsus. Which give you a lot more control over updates.

Our company has a dc but not that kind of control over child computers and it would be a large overhaul (and out of my control) to change the whole network setup.

I wish we used wsus though. M

Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#189

Post by viraptor »

simias wrote: post #47
jamespo wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, most people turned it off because they didn't want updates interrupting them. You are vastly overestimating who cares about "MS malware".

I'm still inclined to blame that on MS really. Poor ergonomics. I can understand the OS telling me to reboot if I haven't restarted the computer in a few days after an update took place but there's no reason to harass me immediately after an update got installed (unless it's a critical 0-day patch I suppose). But really, it's getting worse. I remember seeing a bunch of articles last month about how to preemptively de…

Your last paragraph is confusing. It seems those people rely on your support. Are you really saying you'd rather deal with potential results of them not upgrading than with the upgrade failures? I'm assuming that if they come to you with one, the also do with the other.

Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#190

Post by majewsky »

vocatus_gate wrote: post #154
retox wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe at one point the windows 10 complete installer was downloaded to everyone, 'just incase' they decided to install. Really narrow-minded behaviour.

I worked in Antarctica last year, a "winter-over" contract as combination Network Engineer/Glacier Search and Rescue (GSAR) team member, at one of the very small U.S. research stations. In the atmospheric/climatology lab there are a number of computers running very specific versions of Windows (down to specific patches) tailored to really obscure science research software packages, some industry standard, most custom…

Serious question: Can you sue them for damages, or did they put the right weasel words into the EULA?
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