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Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

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Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#51
post #33

I would like to keep my Windows Update on, but I just can't afford it. Data bundles are too expensive where I live. I can buy a week's worth of groceries with the amount I spend buying just 2GB data bundle. Not everyone lives in a country with cheap data bundles.

Is Satellite an option, that sounds pretty expensive.

Satellite isn't an option. Satellite here is used for digital TV only.

Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#52
post #6

I spent the weekend doing a clean reinstall of windows 10, because windows update had stopped working about a year ago (due to a broken windows insider build). I must admit it was really nice to be able to leave my computer on for months at a time without it restarting for updates. Few people really mind updates. What Microsoft really needs to do is minimize the number of forced restarts required, like Linux which on…

To be fair, if you have a vulnerability in a .so used by e.g. Firefox, you'll also have to restart Firefox after updating to have it pick up the updated library. But you're right I would prefer the Linux update model, where I run a command once a week when I like to pick up the latest versions of software.

Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#54
post #32
post #4

I love the way he's compared the people who tell you to turn off auto-updates with anti-vaxxers; it's quite an apt analogy. Microsoft shares part of the blame here for pushing features that the user clearly doesn't want through updates (especially to the major OS version). Look at the recent ads in Windows file explorer for one example. A lot of the advice to turn Windows Update off is a misguided response to Microso…

The cleverest move was to integrate Cortana with local file and application search, which many users likely use as a universal command line/shortcut (hit windows key and just start typing). I find that when I disable Cortana, local search becomes severely degraded. If anyone has any tips on how to fix this, I'd appreciate them.

The degradation is intentional. In Windows phone, speech to text and quiet hours doesn't work, and the accuracy of shape writing is significantly reduced, when Cortana is switched off.

Ms is trying to turn Cortana into the Google play services of Windows So they can consensually(forcefully) collect data from every windows device.

Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#55
post #14
post #4

I love the way he's compared the people who tell you to turn off auto-updates with anti-vaxxers; it's quite an apt analogy. Microsoft shares part of the blame here for pushing features that the user clearly doesn't want through updates (especially to the major OS version). Look at the recent ads in Windows file explorer for one example. A lot of the advice to turn Windows Update off is a misguided response to Microso…

I don't feel it's quite an apt analogy, since anti-vaxxers have fully imaginary fears of adverse consequences (vaccines causing autism), while people who disable windows update do it after suffering real adverse consequences of forced updates. A good firewall would protect from WanaCrypt and everything else distributed via opening SMB ports on random IPs over the internet (correct me if I'm wrong), so you should be s…

> A good firewall would protect from WanaCrypt

No, unfortunately not - it spread using SMB internally on LANs, but travelled internet-to-LAN by "regular" phishing. It downloads its payload off the internet, but most good firewall would allow that (was the WannaCry payload detectable by virus scanners at the time of the infection? A "good" firewall might be one expected to intercept and scan all downloads).

> A legitimate reason like "this Windows runs on a medical/factory/etc. device that CANNOT go offline to install updates willy-nilly".

"Cannot go offline" implies that it's operationally critical. If you operate such devices, it is an absolute imperative that you have a procedure for taking them offline regularly for updates (not "willy-nilly" and anyone using that word about running a two-year out of date OS on a critical device is objectively not qualified to run them - and anyone buying such a device that can't be upgraded isn't qualified to buy them (and anyone making such a device...)).

Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#56
post #48
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's an interesting problem. Live updates without requiring a restart is going to be a complex task, how do you reload a library in use by a program without crashing it? Well, how do Linux and other unices do that?

software: can upgrade binaries and libraries without affecting already running programs services: they are specifically designed to be updated and restarted kernel: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ksplice

> services: they are specifically designed to be updated and restarted

I write plenty of daemons (you call them "services"). What exactly do I write specifically for them to be able to continue to run when a library is upgraded?

Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#57
post #36
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's an interesting problem. Live updates without requiring a restart is going to be a complex task, how do you reload a library in use by a program without crashing it? Especially when Windows has a decade+ of software compatibility. Their current solution is scheduling updates to periods when the computer is not in use. I think recently they added an option for you to define a set of hours where updates take place.…

> It's an interesting problem. Live updates without requiring a restart is going to be a complex task, how do you reload a library in use by a program without crashing it? Well, how do Linux and other unices do that?

They don't, the program keeps using the old library until it's restarted. Some Linux distributions restart daemons when they or their dependent libraries are updated, but that can't be done for desktop software. Firefox sometimes notices it's been updated and pops up a warning with a "Restart Firefox" button (which keeps the session state), though AFAIK it's only for updates to Firefox itself, not for any of the libraries it might have loaded.

If you never restart a Linux desktop (or at least log out), you will be running outdated libraries, even if you run updates in the background.

(The best solution would be what Android does, where every program is supposed to know how to checkpoint itself, and they are forcefully restarted on a upgrade, transparently to the user. But even there, updates to system libraries still require a full reboot.)

Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#59
post #4

I love the way he's compared the people who tell you to turn off auto-updates with anti-vaxxers; it's quite an apt analogy. Microsoft shares part of the blame here for pushing features that the user clearly doesn't want through updates (especially to the major OS version). Look at the recent ads in Windows file explorer for one example. A lot of the advice to turn Windows Update off is a misguided response to Microso…

Also for forcing restarts for everything. Back when I cared I needed to I used to use ksplice to patch linux without rebooting. If Microsoft made something like this it would stop people switching off the updates.

Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#60

I would like to keep my Windows Update on, but I just can't afford it. Data bundles are too expensive where I live. I can buy a week's worth of groceries with the amount I spend buying just 2GB data bundle. Not everyone lives in a country with cheap data bundles.

This is a far more common reality than the media reports. I too have had this problem and had to resort to finding cheap wifi just for updates. While internet access is fast and cheap in large dense populations in africa, there are still millions of people with limited or expensive internet access.
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