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Moom removed from sale due to patent violation claim

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Re: Moom removed from sale due to patent violation claim

#92
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> because the patent examiner did indeed grant the patent. I am not a patent lawyer but I don't think that how it works. The patent examiner is not qualified to do and does not do an exhaustive check for novelness. They mainly do a procedural check.

I've been through the process both in the US and in Europe. "Exhaustive" has a specific legal definition. The examiner indeed identifies existing work[1] and asks for an explanation. They usually focus on existing grants, but they also look at other applications (that are published). They do not have to pay as much attention to un-filed prior art because the US uses a "first-to-file"[2] system. [1]: https://www.googl…

No, unfiled prior art counts as always, as long as it's published somewhere. It's only secret prior art that stopped counting.

Also, the FITF system only became effective for patents filed on or after March 16, 2013, whereas this patent was filed back in 2008.

Re: Moom removed from sale due to patent violation claim

#93
post #12

If anyone is looking for an alternative: I put together a grid based window manager without an UI some months ago. https://github.com/janten/keypad-layout

This looks pretty cool. I'm on a phone, so didn't look at source, but I'm curious about install procedure (also see an issue about brew). As a web dev, I think I'd like to see this work like a css grid. Width then height. So, ^3^2 would be three columns two rows. Maybe that won't work in practice. Maybe I'll play with the code to see.

Right now it is a simple download from GitHub though I have already submitted a pull request to brew cask. Thank you for opening the issue which finally motivated me to do this.

The tool does work like a grid but with start and end positions instead of sizes so you can move and resize at the same time. ^1^3 is from position (1,1) to (3,1) (i.e. top row), ^1^6 is (1,1) to (3,2) (top two-thirds) etc. You can basically paint the location and size of the window using your numeric keypad. Its pretty straightforward once you try it.

Re: Moom removed from sale due to patent violation claim

#94
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> because the patent examiner did indeed grant the patent. I am not a patent lawyer but I don't think that how it works. The patent examiner is not qualified to do and does not do an exhaustive check for novelness. They mainly do a procedural check.

I've been through the process both in the US and in Europe. "Exhaustive" has a specific legal definition. The examiner indeed identifies existing work[1] and asks for an explanation. They usually focus on existing grants, but they also look at other applications (that are published). They do not have to pay as much attention to un-filed prior art because the US uses a "first-to-file"[2] system. [1]: https://www.googl…

From your comments in this thread, your understanding of first to file is incorrect.

First to file doesn't invalidate un-filed prior art or give it lower presedence.

First to file only really matters when there are overlapping patent applications. Basically a situation where one person files first but the other applicant claims they actually invented first but didn't publish the invention.

Had the person who claims they invented first published their invention, they'd have a year to file.

If that year was up, their prior art could still prevent the other applicant from being granted a patent the same as it would be under first to invent.

Re: Moom removed from sale due to patent violation claim

#95
The most important single thing to read in a patent is the claims, especially the independent (stand-alone) claims.

Infringement analysis amounts to attempting to map the claim's list of elements onto the accused method or structure; if the map function returns FALSE, then that particular claim very likely isn't infringed by that particular accused method or structure.

(That is: If any claim element isn't present—possibly in the form of an "equivalent"—then the accused method or structure doesn't infringe that particular claim.)

Prior-art analysis works backwards: If a claim returns TRUE when mapped onto a piece of prior art—or onto something that would have been "obvious" at the time the invention was made when taking into account all of the relevant prior art [0]—then that claim is probably unpatentable.

In this patent, claim 1 seems to be representative. I've broken up the paragraphing and added bracketed lettering.

(Usual disclaimer: This shouldn't be relied on as a substitute for legal advice; I'm not acting as anyone's lawyer; etc.)

==QUOTE==

1. A method for positioning a window on a user's display, the method comprising:

[A] providing, in a window-based computing environment, an image [i] representing an entire display area of a user's computer screen and [ii] comprising a plurality of selectable regions,

each selectable region [x] representing a sub-area within the display area and [y] having a shape and orientation similar to the corresponding sub-area,

wherein the selectable regions are arranged in the same way the corresponding sub-areas are arranged in the display area;

[B] enabling a user to simultaneously select more than one selectable region from the plurality of selectable regions; and

[C] automatically moving a window in the window-based computing environment to a sub-area corresponding to the selected more than one selectable region.

==END QUOTE==

[0] Obviousness analysis is really tricky because it necessarily requires hindsight. The test is, in essence: Given everything that was known in the relevant field(s) at the time, would a hypothetical person of "ordinary skill" (in that field or fields) have regarded the claimed subject as obvious?

My personal tl;dr for obviousness analysis is this: Suppose that a team of competent-but-not-necessarily-stellar colleagues were shown or told about the claimed invention. If their collective reaction was to raise their eyebrows and murmur, "hmm; that's interesting," then the claimed invention might well have been non-obvious. On the other hand, if their collective reaction was to shrug their shoulders and say, "um, yeah, and?" then the claimed invention might well have been obvious.

In the real world, obviousness analysis is supported by "objective evidence" of nonobviousness, if available. For example, commercial success that's shown to be due to the technical merits of the claimed invention (as opposed to being due mainly to, e.g., marketing) can weigh heavily in favor of nonobviousness. Admiration of experts, ditto.

(I once heard a story, very likely apocryphal, about a patent examiner who rejected a patent application on grounds of obviousness; the patent attorney overcame the rejection by pointing out that the claimed invention had received the Nobel Prize. Personally I'm skeptical because the timing wouldn't work, but the story illustrates the concept.)

Re: Moom removed from sale due to patent violation claim

#97
post #22
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>There is a section "Description of the Related Art" in the patent which makes references to existing (at that time, year 2008) approaches and why they are not good enough In that section, it mostly compares itself to Microsoft Windows' stacking (not tiling) window manager. There's no comparison to ANY of the already existing tiling window managers. It was filed on June 2nd, 2008. There were a ton of tiling oriented…

The patent doesn't appear to describe tiling window management, but the composition of a window layout using a number of menu options that integrate neatly with the existing environment's window controls, and that visually demonstrate their effect. Indeed the patent describes a user interface to accomplish this that looks very similar to screenshots of Moom. My experience with the USPTO is that statements like "I don…

[deleted]

Re: Moom removed from sale due to patent violation claim

#98
post #94
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been through the process both in the US and in Europe. "Exhaustive" has a specific legal definition. The examiner indeed identifies existing work[1] and asks for an explanation. They usually focus on existing grants, but they also look at other applications (that are published). They do not have to pay as much attention to un-filed prior art because the US uses a "first-to-file"[2] system. [1]: https://www.googl…

From your comments in this thread, your understanding of first to file is incorrect. First to file doesn't invalidate un-filed prior art or give it lower presedence. First to file only really matters when there are overlapping patent applications. Basically a situation where one person files first but the other applicant claims they actually invented first but didn't publish the invention. Had the person who claims t…

> First to file doesn't invalidate un-filed prior art or give it lower presedence.

I'm not saying it invalidates anything.

I'm saying this kind of arm-chair lawyering isn't going to impress a judge.

> First to file only really matters when there are overlapping patent applications.

35 USC 102 (b).

Re: Moom removed from sale due to patent violation claim

#99
post #46
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It may be silly, but remember that the US uses first-to-file, not first-to-invent.

First to file, though, is just about the patent being granted. Once you start using your patent to bully people, prior art, even non-patented prior art, can be used against you. Edit: "Once the patent has issued, you can challenge it at the USPTO by filing a request for reexamination of the patent" [1] [1] https://www.uspto.gov/patents-maintaining-patent/patent-liti... Edit2: It's also possible there are overlapping,…

> Edit2: It's also possible there are overlapping, earlier patents. This one looks promising...compare the drawings:

There's also:

https://www.google.com/patents/US5796402

Re: Moom removed from sale due to patent violation claim

#100

Oh dear. I guess Spectacle (the app I use that does a similar thing) will be on a pretty long list of those to follow.

I've been using Magnet for a while now. It seems much more stable and efficient than Spectacle. Hopefully it will not end up on this chopping block as well. http://magnet.crowdcafe.com/

Is there a similar app for Ubuntu-flavor Linux? I use it on MacOS, but sometimes play around with Linux on a laptop with a terrible track pad. I know you can customize keyboard shortcuts but haven't been able to replicate Magnet precisely.
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