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China's $1T Plan to Shake Up the Economic Order

nytimes.com

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Re: China's $1T Plan to Shake Up the Economic Order

#181

Post by igk »

malandrew wrote: post #111
marcell wrote: post #77

I'm struck by China's ability to attempt large, ambitious projects like this, compared to America's inability to do, well, anything really. The largest infrastructure project I'm aware of in the USA is California's High Speed Rail (~$60B+), was approved a decade ago and is barely making any progress. The federal government is in complete gridlock. The most ambitious legislation passed in the last decade, the ACA, cau…

Blame the fragmenting US population identity-wise, which has been accelerated by rhetoric on the left. Fewer and fewer people identify as an "American" with each passing year meaning that it is harder and harder to push policies that benefit "Americans". I lived in China for 1.5 years in 2005 to 2006 and culturally, once you pull back the facade of language and food, it wasn't terribly different than how America felt…

I kind of doubt that a lack of nationalism brought by "left" rhetoric is the problem if "small government" is a rallying cry of those that have "not left"as part of their identity. To pay for large projects, you need taxes.

Re: China's $1T Plan to Shake Up the Economic Order

#182

Post by manquer »

tiatia wrote: post #117

Well, they build roads and trains. Something that they know. The Question: Will it be enough? Some people claim that there are no more reasonable investment opportunities left in China. "The power plants in Pakistan, as well as upgrades to a major highway and a $1 billion port expansion, are a political bulwark. By prompting growth in Pakistan, China wants to blunt the spread of Pakistan’s terrorists across the borde…

Pakistan is closer ally than india for the US . Pakistan receives much more military aid alone every year than the Chinese investment

Re: China's $1T Plan to Shake Up the Economic Order

#183

Post by pknerd »

manquer wrote: post #182
tiatia wrote: post #117

Well, they build roads and trains. Something that they know. The Question: Will it be enough? Some people claim that there are no more reasonable investment opportunities left in China. "The power plants in Pakistan, as well as upgrades to a major highway and a $1 billion port expansion, are a political bulwark. By prompting growth in Pakistan, China wants to blunt the spread of Pakistan’s terrorists across the borde…

Pakistan is closer ally than india for the US . Pakistan receives much more military aid alone every year than the Chinese investment

US is ally of Pakistan while China is rather a friend.

Re: China's $1T Plan to Shake Up the Economic Order

#184

Post by prodmerc »

gaius wrote: post #131
prodmerc wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huawei will shamelessly give away all your data to the Chinese government. At the very least it looks like Cisco doesn't willingly do that with the NSA. That should count for something. Else we'll have to learn to trade like the Chinese, and it's almost inconceivable - they'll fuck you the first chance they get, like some third world shithole, they have no principles in my experience.

It's clear that the Chinese are playing economics to win, while the West is playing like it's still just a game. It's kinda weird when you think about it. A Western manager thinks that Chinese or Indians are content to do as they are told and lack the ability or ambition to compete, so just outsource the work. But the truth is they are just as smart as anyone, and have the same aspirations as everyone else and are ru…

Well, I don't care about that, I just want to get what we agreed on, not get good quality samples and then subpar shit that uses cheaper metal for the end product. Also if you want quality control, you need to have your own man doing that as the factory just doesn't give a fuck.

I get that it's all cheaper, if that's the problem let it be more expensive, not lower quality.

Re: China's $1T Plan to Shake Up the Economic Order

#185

Post by candiodari »

Retric wrote: post #82
CuriousSkeptic wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would say it's the other way around. Negotiating international trade agreements with the purpose of limiting the flow of information by means of "IP" is the very definition of protectionism.

Mutual IP agreements are not protectionism just an equal playing field. Protecting domestic companies, but not foreign ones on the other hand is the definition of protectionism. PS: Abolishing IP would also be a level playing field, but again that's not what they are doing.

If you think China's IP practices are intended to create an equal playing field, you're more than just a little bit naive.

Also mostly Chinese domestic companies' protectionism is about the same thing as the European version of the same is : getting enough Chinese people jobs so they don't revolt.

Re: China's $1T Plan to Shake Up the Economic Order

#186

Post by jk2323 »

Animats wrote: post #21

The "Belt and Road" scheme is well known. The first container freight train from Yiwu, China to Barking, England, arrived January 15, 2017. Coast to coast travel time: two weeks.[1] Conveniently, China uses a 4' 8.5" track gauge, unlike Russian metric gauge, so they can move freight cars all the way without a gauge change. Soon, of course, heavier rails, longer trains, faster trains, more trains, better gradients, mo…

"Conveniently, China uses a 4' 8.5" track gauge, unlike Russian metric gauge, so they can move freight cars all the way without a gauge change."

Aeh, when was the last time you looked at a world map? You realize that the trains all have to go through Russia?

Re: China's $1T Plan to Shake Up the Economic Order

#187

Post by KaoruAoiShiho »

kcanini wrote: post #109
KaoruAoiShiho wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google copied baidu not the other way around. And how is Alibaba a copy of Amazon... It's nothing like Amazon in terms of how it actually works and make money. An Alibaba in the US doesn't even exist.

> Google copied baidu not the other way around How so?

The founder of Baidu Robin Li published his RankDex paper in 1997, a year before Larry Page's PageRank in 1998. And Larry was clearly aware of RankDex when he founded Google.

Here's what Wikipedia says in its PageRank entry:

>A small search engine called "RankDex" from IDD Information Services designed by Robin Li was, since 1996, already exploring a similar strategy for site-scoring and page ranking.[16] The technology in RankDex would be patented by 1999[17] and used later when Li founded Baidu in China.[18][19] Li's work would be referenced by some of Larry Page's U.S. patents for his Google search methods.[20]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PageRank#cite_ref-20

I don't think Google is a Baidu clone but in the cavalier way that people accuse other people of copying the timeline only supports Larry copying Robin Li.

Re: China's $1T Plan to Shake Up the Economic Order

#188

Post by KaoruAoiShiho »

justabystander wrote: post #146
kcanini wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Google copied baidu not the other way around How so?

They didn't. Google predates Baidu by two years. It's possible they could be talking about a specific technology, but not likely. Google had a Chinese subsidiary at one point in time, but stopped bothering as the government got in their way and assisted Baidu at every turn. Like with most situations where a foreign company competes with a Chinese one. And that's before you get into the fact that China really doesn't…

Read my comment above, inform yourself.

Re: China's $1T Plan to Shake Up the Economic Order

#189

Post by B4TMAN »

Inconel wrote: post #170
throwaway27373 wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you heard of the 'patriot act'

Not the poster you're replying to but I have. I can't say that I'm fond of it. I've never heard it being used against a movie director for portraying the US military unfavorably though.

Lauras Poitras for "My country My country".

Re: China's $1T Plan to Shake Up the Economic Order

#190

Post by jon_richards »

panzer_wyrm wrote: post #143
jon_richards wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Container ships are about 2.5 times as fuel efficient as trains. I'm not sure what percentage of total cost that is, but I imagine it is significant.

Trains can also run on electricity. Ships are far away from that.

Ships are also incredibly unregulated on the type of fuel they use and their emissions, which, while bad for the environment, lowers the cost significantly.
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