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Recovering from Burnout and Depression

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Re: Recovering from Burnout and Depression

#241

Post by projektir »

taway_1212 wrote: post #229
projektir wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The word "purpose" would fit what I'm talking about, but not really the way it seems to be commonly used. I distinguish these things by their target of focus: A "purpose" is concerned with one's place in the world. It's an attempt to fit in. It is also often done in a manner similar to picking your favorite color. "I want to be a star athlete". A high-level "purpose"/"goal"/etc. is concerned with the state of the wor…

The problem I see with this approach is that, unless you're a billionaire (maybe a multimillionaire), you're not going to affect the world in any measurable way (barring super-rare exceptions like some writers, politicians, scientists etc.). Granted, you could make your life's purpose to for example improve pot holes situation in your county - in such case, even when being an average nobody you can make the situation…

> The problem I see with this approach is that, unless you're a billionaire (maybe a multimillionaire), you're not going to affect the world in any measurable way (barring super-rare exceptions like some writers, politicians, scientists etc.).

I think this belief comes from highly individualist cultures where you need to do everything yourself, but it's not the only way of doing things. People tend to just focus on themselves, improving themselves, figuring out how they personally can do something, but there's not much focus on involving other people.

On the contrary, "doers" often close up, stop talking to people, stop making friends, etc., in their effort to "do" the thing, which, if anything, makes their network angry at them. Often this /does/ happen because doers think less of everyone else, creating the very kind of pressure that pushes people away.

How do movements start, even silly ones? We've seen plenty of those. They don't really require someone to do some insane amount of work. But they require people to talk about it and to then bear the brunt of ostracism. Plenty of movements, including many people don't like at all, have grown this way. Simply from some people saying "you know, this makes no sense" and other people agreeing.

A lot of things come down to what regular people talk about every day and connecting to them. Even billionaires and writers, in the end, are trying to change the thinking of regular people.

Re: Recovering from Burnout and Depression

#242

Post by erikpukinskis »

psyc wrote: post #236
erikpukinskis wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet this is one of the central business models of Silicon Valley: build a software apparatus, hire "interchangeable" women to take care of the human side of it, pay them "market rates" which for women's work means "the lowest acceptable wage for at least one woman in the social class your customers expect" (they're interchangeable, any woman could follow the script. The hard part is building The Apparatus that tells…

What is this SV software company role that is filled exclusively by underpaid women? I'm trying to think of what you might be referring to, but honestly have no idea.

Customer support and office manager are the big ones. I wouldn't use the word exclusively.

Re: Recovering from Burnout and Depression

#243

Post by qb45 »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #239
dnautics wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Money is very broken currently. "By a continuing process of inflation, governments can confiscate, secretly and unobserved, an important part of the wealth of their citizens. By this method, they not only confiscate, but they confiscate arbitrarily; and, while the process impoverishes many, it actually enriches some. The sight of this arbitrary rearrangement of riches strikes not only at security, but at confidence i…

> stealing from the poor and giving to the rich via inflation Inflation is a tax on assets. Isn't that the exact opposite of taking from the poor?

Inflation is a tax on money, not on all assets. It costs those who have their assets located in money. The big fish don't and beggars neither. Lower-middle would be my guess.

Re: Recovering from Burnout and Depression

#244

Post by chmike »

This is very interesting. The site is nice but I miss the opportunity to provide feedback to the author. It's frustrating.

To recover from a burnout I have seen that it can be helpful to keep track of achievements. In depression or burnout very simple things become very exhausting. Keeping track of the little things we manage to achieve are like small victories. When we measure and display in a graphic all the things we achieved, we objectivate things and see progress which give back trust and power. It's a vertuous circle. Objectivation is important because we tend to see only the negative side of things, and especially ourselves.

Re: Recovering from Burnout and Depression

#245

Post by hn017132 »

neversorry wrote: post #145
hn017132 wrote: post #52

I burned out in 1999 and never really recovered. I miss some of the work, but not the stress, not the politics nor gamesmanship. Instead of creating capital value for faceless shareholders I've spent the past nearly 20 years creating financial and personal value for myself.

If you don't mind me asking, what steps did you take?

I taught myself how to invest for reasonable returns, so a mix of stocks, bonds, and real companies. I learned how to read and critique financial statements, business plans, LLC / LP organization documents.

I learned how to say “no” to outrageous demands on my time, to companies which asked that I give it all in return for some meager equity grant that could be worth millions but more likely not worth the paper it was written on.

Fairly boring, really, but not covered in my CS or liberal arts studies in college.

You get so caught up in the moment: get a job, make money, pay your debts, you don't get a chance to step back and ask what you want out of life.

I've tried working with startups again since I left that world, and I always end up leaving after a few months to a year. Most startups are managed as though everything is a crisis, your hair is on fire all the time (and if it's not, then clearly you're doing something wrong). Firms, capital back companies are not new. Digital technology and communications remove a lot of the friction, but a lot of the corporate politics you find in today's hot startup existed in the 1990s, 1980s, 1970s and so on. It's not just a failure to learn from the past, it's an outright refusal, the constant "it'll be different this time" mantra.

Surprise: it's pretty much the same shit, different logos and domain names (and apps).

Re: Recovering from Burnout and Depression

#246

Post by envoked »

abledon wrote: post #235
envoked wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most your points resonate with me but in my experience a large part of it has to do with perspective. I [believe] I'm in the latter stages of burnout and while very anxiety-inducing, it's been a great learning and worthwhile experience so far. For context, I started coding when I was 13 (I'm 29), studied CS, and never had any job outside of software engineering – got started undercutting outsourcers on Elance as a te…

Did you throw your stuff in store before you started moving around to other cities? Or did you sell everything and say 'Tabula Rasa! clean slate!'.

I didn't own that much to begin with but I sold what I didn't need, and put everything else in a friend's garage. Oddly (but in line with what most digital nomads seem to experience) after living out of a backpack for a few months, I don't miss most of it (exceptions being things like my snowboard, sharp kitchen knives, quality pots, etc.)

Re: Recovering from Burnout and Depression

#247

Post by watwut »

cookiecaper wrote: post #136
projektir wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most high-level goals that I've seen people have amount to what I call "winning the gauntlet". Making a lot of money, founding a big company, achieving fame, finding a high-profile SO, etc. Statistically, those goals will not be achieved by a given person, and not only that, but they effectively amount to "have it better than someone else", i.e., they're zero-sum. Goals like these seem reasonable to people when they…

>A broad non-status goal wouldn't fit that paradigm. It is likely to be overwhelming and require a lot of people, or, on the other hand, be fairly straightforward and missed because it's not prestigious. I think you have it here. There are some very simple, very natural things that can fulfill most of the average individual's basic yearnings, but they're overlooked today, they're regarded as passe or even backwards.…

We have less social ills then pre-WWII world. Also, 19 century workers and peasants (e.g. majority of population lower class) spent more or equally as much time in work (including women) then we do now.

Re: Recovering from Burnout and Depression

#248

Post by Mz »

boomlinde wrote: post #218
Mz wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's probably a terrible way to frame it. Maybe a better way is to say something like "People whose lives do not revolve solely around pursuit of the almighty dollar." I would like to think there is a happy medium and that there are people who have their priorities straight and are also not poor. But there seems to be a dearth of evidence for this thing I would like to believe. It seems like those unwilling to sell t…

> It's probably a terrible way to frame it. Maybe a better way is to say something like "People whose lives do not revolve solely around pursuit of the almighty dollar." Yes, but the notion that the lives of those in poverty revolve less around the pursuit of money seems far removed from reality. Poor people struggle to make ends meet. This means taking awful jobs they don't want, eating low quality food, not affordi…

You are currently talking to a homeless woman whose life revolves around getting well when the world says that cannot be done. When I was younger, my life revolved around taking care of my family as I was a military wife and homeschooling mom for a lot of years.

I have had a class on homelessness and public policy, I have been homeless for over 5 years and I am the author of the San Diego Homeless Survival Guide. http://sandiegohomelesssurvivalguide.blogspot.com/

I know a hell of a lot more about what "vagrants and hobos" do than you do. And your contempt for people with less money than you is not really pertinent to the point I was making. You clearly don't understand my point at all and are bringing so much personal prejudice to this topic that I see no real point in trying to correct the nonsense you are spouting.

Re: Recovering from Burnout and Depression

#249

Post by ahartman00 »

sethx wrote: post #233

Software engineer here. I've been working on meaningless and emotionally unrewarding project for the last 2 years. Running burnout self-tests this morning yielded me the second most critical level, but still worthy of "act immediately" or "seek medical attention". I feel pretty down and my dayjob is meaningless to me. I'm considering taking a sick leave till the end of my contract next month, and am wondering this: I…

"I feel pretty down and my dayjob is meaningless to me"

Do you have hobbies? There's many to choose from :) Ask yourself, what does have meaning to you? There is more to life than a job.

"should i pick up a sideproject I've committed to that i kind of care about instead, and think is interesting?"

This might be a good idea. If you would find it meaningful and emotionally rewarding.

"Or ditch that as well and just take rest/go travel?"

Is there someplace you have always wanted to go? Rest is good, but it sounds like you aren't overworked, as much as just not being stimulated. As far as I can tell.

"Can i still work while recovering? What's a good workload?"

If you have the savings, I wouldn't.

"I'm considering taking a sick leave till the end of my contract next month"

If you absolutely need to. But it might mean not getting a good reference. Can you stick it out(assuming you dont already have another lined up)?

Re: Recovering from Burnout and Depression

#250

Post by darioush »

elementalest wrote: post #91
moron4hire wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Burnout and depression is a topic that not enough of us talk about You know, I get what you're saying, but I actually need to stop you here. Because honestly, we can't go two weeks without a post hitting the front page about someone's personal come-to-Jesus moment about burnout. We do talk about burnout and depression, a lot . And nobody learns. Nobody learns and I don't think anyone will learn. In the 20 years I'v…

Maybe its not so much that nobody learns, but that its something that is generally best learned through experience. Its hard to self assess and self deception is easy. So society keeps repeating the same mistakes, even though those who have experienced and learned from it are actually talking about it. To me it seems much more like a societal/systemic problem - one that will not be easy to fix, especially with the in…

What you're describing is the norm in capitalist Western countries. Other societies have different "things to chase", basically the values of their cultures.
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