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Recovering from Burnout and Depression

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Re: Recovering from Burnout and Depression

#191

Post by colordrops »

55555 wrote: post #15

I think a big factor in burnout is that most work is ultimately meaningless, or even morally wrong, and on a deep level, we're aware of that. Why is it so hard to make yourself work? Probably because you actually should be doing something else with your life. If someone paid you money to kick a dog, you'd feel a strong urge to do something else. That's because you shouldn't kick dogs. But when we feel the same urge t…

As I've grown older (and hopefully wiser) I've taken a position that is a lot more meaningful but with a lot less compensation. I do often think about finances and worry about my retirement, as I have children. But I will say that making a lot of money and wishing you were doing something more with your life is a lot more painful and damaging that doing something worthwhile and wishing you had more money.

Re: Recovering from Burnout and Depression

#192

Post by bamboozled »

cortesoft wrote: post #166
55555 wrote: post #15

I think a big factor in burnout is that most work is ultimately meaningless, or even morally wrong, and on a deep level, we're aware of that. Why is it so hard to make yourself work? Probably because you actually should be doing something else with your life. If someone paid you money to kick a dog, you'd feel a strong urge to do something else. That's because you shouldn't kick dogs. But when we feel the same urge t…

I feel like this is more about how you see life in general than about your job and work. Quite simply, I love life. I know this isn't true for everyone, but it is for me. I find a lot of things meaningful and exciting. I love watching people on youtube excel at their random hobbies, I love seeing people compete in sports, I love talking about random things with friends and coworkers. I love the feeling I get when I s…

Shoving your head in the sand perhaps?

Maybe your life is awesome, but people with chronic depression probably find it hard to just "look on the bright" there way out of it. Kudos to you for being the master of your destiny (honestly), but not everyone has it so easily.

Maybe it's their fault for not having the privilege to be exposed to the comments section of hacker news? :)

Re: Recovering from Burnout and Depression

#193

Post by dwaltrip »

taco_emoji wrote: post #106
crush-n-spread wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I submit that the working person greatly benefits from having a strongly held, over-arching life goal. Then even if he or she is working a soul-draining job for, say, a social media company, they will be content knowing it is a necessary step towards their goal.

> strongly held, over-arching life goal Like what? I believe that I'm an incidentally self-aware thermodynamic curiosity; setting any sort of lifelong goal feels like an attempt to fool myself into feeling important.

Ah, but feelings of importance are merely incidental mental representations and emotional responses that are somewhat hard coded into our bio machinery, so I'm pretty sure the universe won't mind if you indulge every now and then. Having this self awareness adds a nice element of comic absurdity to the indulgence as well ;)

Re: Recovering from Burnout and Depression

#194

Post by cortesoft »

bamboozled wrote: post #192
cortesoft wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like this is more about how you see life in general than about your job and work. Quite simply, I love life. I know this isn't true for everyone, but it is for me. I find a lot of things meaningful and exciting. I love watching people on youtube excel at their random hobbies, I love seeing people compete in sports, I love talking about random things with friends and coworkers. I love the feeling I get when I s…

Shoving your head in the sand perhaps? Maybe your life is awesome, but people with chronic depression probably find it hard to just "look on the bright" there way out of it. Kudos to you for being the master of your destiny (honestly), but not everyone has it so easily. Maybe it's their fault for not having the privilege to be exposed to the comments section of hacker news? :)

Chronic depression is not caused by avoiding "shoving your head in the sand." It is certainly not the case that people with chronic depression are simply more 'aware' of all the shittiness in the world than the happy people.

I am fully aware of the awfulness in the world. I know millions of people suffer immensely every day, and I want to do my part to alleviate as much suffering as I can. However, I also know that me being miserable will not help anyone. Finding joy wherever you can is simply the best response to a crazy, unjust, and often times cruel world.

As far as depression goes, I hope my comment didn't come across as dismissive of real depression. That is a serious condition that cannot be fixed just by sheer will. It can, however, be dealt with, and I have many family members who are living testimants to that fact. It must be treated like any other serious health issue; I am in no way advocating ignoring your problems, I am saying make the best of it as you deal with them.

Re: Recovering from Burnout and Depression

#195

Post by Retra »

cortesoft wrote: post #179
malkia wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was a Game Designer Book (or collection of interviews) where someone (forgive me, I forget the name) classified games into two categories: one with goal (game-like), and the other ones without (toy-like). For example Mario Bros is about saving the Princess (Goal), while Age Of Empires is not (toyette). Wondering if this applies back to life. Some people put goals, others just like to play with life, to experien…

I think you are on to something. I have always thought of the things we value as having either intrinsic value or extrinsic value; do we value the thing because it itself is good, or because it allows us to get something else that is good? Money, for example, has extrinsic value, because we only value it for what we can buy with it (unless you are coin collector, I suppose). Eating ice cream, on the other hand, has i…

That's kind of an artificial distinction though. If your goal is to experience nice things, then the two are irreconcilably indistinguishable.

A big part of happiness is enjoying what you have. On the other hand, happiness doesn't really matter all that much. It's only a goal if you don't know how to achieve it. Once you figure it out, you move onto some other goal until you become unhappy chasing that one.

Re: Recovering from Burnout and Depression

#196

Post by mikekchar »

jansho wrote: post #168
jgamman wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That last sentence. Seriously?

I think today is my bad wordsmith day. I was so detached from feeling reality, I felt jealous when I saw scavengers in Nigeria finding 'treasure' in the junk yard that they can fix and sell in the market. And when I was in a not so affluent area at one time, and guys in rags gathered around a trolley were chatting away happily. And when a shopkeeper of a small booth looked so relaxed, watching the world go by with hi…

Based on the topic of this thread, you can look at it in a different way. All humans need a challenge (or, at least, I've never met someone who is happy without some kind of challenge). A challenge for survival is, perhaps, the most noble kind. Literature (in all cultures) is filled with fantasies of the "Noble Savage". It is easy to connect meaning to that life and death struggle.

In that context, if I compare a rich person sitting on their yacht, sipping a martini to a scavenger who excitedly sets to work fixing a broken clock in order to eat next week -- which person would I want to be like? I mean, yachts and martinis are great, but they don't tell me what kind of person I am -- only that I am rich. Happily tinkering away while struggling against all odds? I want to be that kind of person. So does everyone -- that's why the motif pops up in virtually every piece of fiction, from the Bourne Identity to Harry Potter.

It's a bit of fiction, but I still think it's important. In truth, having a meaningful, noble challenge is mostly orthogonal to having money. We do see people struggling to gain money so that they can escape challenge -- only to be miserable with the result. However, money can also provide the means to choose your challenge rather than to be forced to always deal with survival.

In the end, though, whether you have money or not, how you choose to respond to challenge is what determines what kind of person you are. I also envy and respect those who excitedly greet their challenges every day.

Re: Recovering from Burnout and Depression

#197

Post by rdiddly »

jgamman wrote: post #156
jansho wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you find yourself in this situation, it's a good idea to "zoom out" a little and get closer to nature and real people. I took long walks, trying to soak up the sun, trees, insects everything. I also walked all over the city and watched different people getting on with their lives; commuting, serving, sweeping, chatting ... and all the while paying attention to their facial expressions and language. And finally I…

That last sentence. Seriously?

Why not? Is it such a taboo idea to question whether maybe those without a lot of money might not be happier, more integral, less living-a-lie? (Assuming there is enough for the basics of survival.) I've seen it first-hand. Some of them even feel sorry for the rich Americans. Sometimes what you gain by staying poor is worth more than the money.

Re: Recovering from Burnout and Depression

#198

Post by rexpop »

bspn wrote: post #34
55555 wrote: post #15

I think a big factor in burnout is that most work is ultimately meaningless, or even morally wrong, and on a deep level, we're aware of that. Why is it so hard to make yourself work? Probably because you actually should be doing something else with your life. If someone paid you money to kick a dog, you'd feel a strong urge to do something else. That's because you shouldn't kick dogs. But when we feel the same urge t…

> I think a big factor in burnout is that most work is ultimately meaningless, or even morally wrong, and on a deep level, we're aware of that. I don't this is true across the board, but the challenge is finding a "job" that you love and are excited to tackle every day. This will differ for most people, but the closer you can get to doing something that you would voluntarily want to do even if you weren't being paid…

This is a very privileged point-of-view. Most folks are lucky to find a job they don't hate, that isn't grossly exploitative and uncomfortable.

Re: Recovering from Burnout and Depression

#199

Post by convolvatron »

michaeltoth wrote: post #114
convolvatron wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

its pretty hard. alot of reaching out. contracts dry up for a wide variety of reasons. so you have to keep the pipe full. body shops will reach out to you - thats usually suboptimal for alot of reasons, but its work sadly, alot of my contracts come from interviews for full time positions where the customer is hiring for some special skill, but its clear there isn't a long term role for me there. that can lead to work…

Thanks for the detailed response. You point out some interesting challenges that I hadn't fully considered. Overall, do you still prefer to contracting process and role to a traditional position?

for me personally i dont really have a choice...to continue the analogy, its nice to have friends and go to parties. but instead of throwing hysterics when married lisa makes a drunken pass at married brad...i get to chide the bartender for overserving and wait until midnight.
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