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Recovering from Burnout and Depression

kierantie.com

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Re: Recovering from Burnout and Depression

#111

Post by eduren »

crush-n-spread wrote: post #81
losteric wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean by "goals"? I've met too many people hopelessly throwing themselves against a wall trying to "achieve their dreams"... they see themselves as a Hollywood-esque main character, either aiming unrealistically high or shooting for mundane gimmes. Without a broader vision, those that pick reasonably scoped goals may still end up depressed by their small wins that add up to nothing. Modern mss media and im…

Yes, I concur that resistance to burnout depends on having a broader context to your life and humanity as a whole. If you understand your own life within the perspective of the billions of humans that have lived and died before you, and that will live after you, it adds a very resilient drive and resistance to small setbacks. Personally, I was able to achieve this using the recursive why, or chained why, which is a t…

While I'm sure that methodology can produce personal drive in some people, others can follow the same process and feel like it'll never mean something.

Also, if possible, could you point me in the direction of this "meaning of life" you found. It would really help me out.

Re: Recovering from Burnout and Depression

#112

Post by convolvatron »

michaeltoth wrote: post #105
convolvatron wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

how is that? i find that chaos and bad leadership still has a huge impact on my perception of my job and my ability to make progress as a contractor. its just alot easier to shrug and cash the check. and spend as much of the rest of your time doing things you think are worthwhile. ideally as a contractor i could choose to apply myself at places which were better organized and more engaging, its just they aren't as in…

A bit off topic, but I'm curious - how did you get started in contracting and how do you go about finding clients? Is it through people you've worked with in the past, or do you somehow advertise yourself? This is something I've considered moving toward but I don't know where to begin. Thanks!

its pretty hard. alot of reaching out. contracts dry up for a wide variety of reasons. so you have to keep the pipe full.

body shops will reach out to you - thats usually suboptimal for alot of reasons, but its work

sadly, alot of my contracts come from interviews for full time positions where the customer is hiring for some special skill, but its clear there isn't a long term role for me there. that can lead to work

old contacts are the best way, but you have to stay on people's radar.

sofar I've found gig sites to be pretty useless. the site wants to constrain communication so that you cant have the normal design discussion up front - they just say 'microcontroller work my impression is that the mvp webapp space is still pretty easy to make money in. not really in systems - decent employers know that its hard to make a contract work well and would rather have you as a resource ongoing. and everyone is just doing staple jobs these days, so 'kernel' and 'test' and 'embedded', and all the old specialties dont get you anywhere.

i would try to leverage someone you've worked with before who is now in a position to influence a contract decision. someone with whom you have a level of mutual respect. once you have something ongoing, always spend time trying to open up new opportunities.

the thing that i find hard is that as a hired gun, you can present your opinion for consideration - once. its not your role to pursue and agenda, you're there to provide hourly services at the discretion of the customer and you need to demonstrate concrete value.

to circle around, its this carefully negotiated per-task relationship that both removes the pain of trying to work around useless colleagues and eliminates any reward you might feel for shaping a product. this is not your party, you're just serving canapes.

Re: Recovering from Burnout and Depression

#113

Post by ambicapter »

marsrover wrote: post #37
maldusiecle wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think this is true. Occupations that have very positive social impact can have very high burnout rates--it's not as if burnout and depression are unheard of among teachers and social workers, for instance. You're confusing cause and effect, to a certain degree. The feeling that your work is meaningless can be a symptom of burnout itself. People who do work that clearly improves other people's lives can still…

I can imagine there are many teachers and social workers who burn out due to feeling like they're not making an impact no matter how hard they try. I don't think he's confusing cause and effect. There are instances where burnout is caused by a lack of purpose provided by the job. Just because there are instances of work feeling meaningless caused by burnout, doesn't mean the inverse cannot happen. > People who do wor…

Not really, you just have to work for completely inept management that stymies or stonewalls your every effort to improve the situation.

Re: Recovering from Burnout and Depression

#114

Post by michaeltoth »

convolvatron wrote: post #112
michaeltoth wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A bit off topic, but I'm curious - how did you get started in contracting and how do you go about finding clients? Is it through people you've worked with in the past, or do you somehow advertise yourself? This is something I've considered moving toward but I don't know where to begin. Thanks!

its pretty hard. alot of reaching out. contracts dry up for a wide variety of reasons. so you have to keep the pipe full. body shops will reach out to you - thats usually suboptimal for alot of reasons, but its work sadly, alot of my contracts come from interviews for full time positions where the customer is hiring for some special skill, but its clear there isn't a long term role for me there. that can lead to work…

Thanks for the detailed response. You point out some interesting challenges that I hadn't fully considered. Overall, do you still prefer to contracting process and role to a traditional position?

Re: Recovering from Burnout and Depression

#115

Post by ryandrake »

bspn wrote: post #34
55555 wrote: post #15

I think a big factor in burnout is that most work is ultimately meaningless, or even morally wrong, and on a deep level, we're aware of that. Why is it so hard to make yourself work? Probably because you actually should be doing something else with your life. If someone paid you money to kick a dog, you'd feel a strong urge to do something else. That's because you shouldn't kick dogs. But when we feel the same urge t…

> I think a big factor in burnout is that most work is ultimately meaningless, or even morally wrong, and on a deep level, we're aware of that. I don't this is true across the board, but the challenge is finding a "job" that you love and are excited to tackle every day. This will differ for most people, but the closer you can get to doing something that you would voluntarily want to do even if you weren't being paid…

I've found there is no such magic job. That's why it's called a "job" and not a "hobby that pays", and that's why the call what you get "compensation". Your pay compensates you for the time you spend doing something you otherwise would never choose to do on your own! The key is to just accept this transaction on its face and not go and assign deep personal meaning to it or get your self-worth all wrapped up in it.

Re: Recovering from Burnout and Depression

#116

Post by rubicon33 »

tannerc wrote: post #101
rubicon33 wrote: post #96

I want to highlight something that the article touched on, which for me, was a big source of burnout. "Breakdown of community" This can happen if you work remotely, or work in-office with a team that isn't collaborating effectively. If the work you do is isolating and you rarely collaborate with others, you may suffer burnout. At our core we all want to feel like we're part of something bigger than ourselves. Being p…

Poor collaboration within a small team is something I'm experiencing now, and it's devastating. Would be curious to hear if you found a way out, or a way to improve collaboration within a currently flawed group.

That's a tough question to provide a meaningful answer to without understanding the source of the problem. Conflicts and lack of collaboration on teams can be the result of a number of factors each requiring a unique approach.

In general it's the responsibility of the manager to monitor the health of the team as a unit. If you have a manager it may be worth bringing this issue to their attention and working with them to find a solution. The manager has the authority, and should have the respect, to make the necessary changes to your team dynamics to improve collaboration. What this means for your team, depends entirely on what the source of the problem is.

For as much as managers get a bad rap in the tech community, they really do have an important job. Steering the ship and ensuring the wellbeing of the team is their number one priority. A good manager should be open to your comments and appreciate the opportunity to work with you to increase valuable collaboration.

If you don't have a manager then you may need to wear the manager hat. My recommendation in this case - not knowing you or your team - would be to identify the source of the collaboration breakdown, and then reach out to your colleagues to see if they feel the same way. Assuming everyone on your team is cordial, they should be open to a discussion on how to promote a collaborative environment. If your teammates are NOT cordial, well, you've got an entirely different problem on your hands...

Re: Recovering from Burnout and Depression

#118

Post by graphitezepp »

quantumhobbit wrote: post #39
kierantie wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hear that - it sounds VERY similar to what I dealt with. I also had the additional problem of working to help an audience and a customer base that deep down, I didn't care about. So many people seem to believe it's only about overwork - but that's only a small part of it. It's a myth I tried to dispel as best I could in the article.

Very true about overwork. I would be less burned out if I worked more, or was allowed to be more productive. For me burnout is about powerlessness in work, the feeling that no matter what I do I won't be able to make a positive impact.

"burnout is about powerlessness" I think is a succinct but adequate way to put it, at least from my perspective.

Re: Recovering from Burnout and Depression

#119

Post by twfarland »

convolvatron wrote: post #100
twfarland wrote: post #71

I burned out three times in salaried jobs. Mostly due to chaotic leadership. Hard work isn't the problem. Chaos and bad leadership is the problem. Moved to contracting, and have been fine since.

how is that? i find that chaos and bad leadership still has a huge impact on my perception of my job and my ability to make progress as a contractor. its just alot easier to shrug and cash the check. and spend as much of the rest of your time doing things you think are worthwhile. ideally as a contractor i could choose to apply myself at places which were better organized and more engaging, its just they aren't as in…

For me, contracting works because you can go in, provide value, get paid, and get out, before getting too involved in some inevitably quixotic adventure. Of course, you have to pick your clients/jobs. It's more pleasant to work on greenfield stuff or for clients where one of the founders is technical. And define clear end-points up-front. Otherwise, it will be a pain. Pickiness is a privilege that should be used to the max.

Re: Recovering from Burnout and Depression

#120

Post by twfarland »

michaeltoth wrote: post #105
convolvatron wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

how is that? i find that chaos and bad leadership still has a huge impact on my perception of my job and my ability to make progress as a contractor. its just alot easier to shrug and cash the check. and spend as much of the rest of your time doing things you think are worthwhile. ideally as a contractor i could choose to apply myself at places which were better organized and more engaging, its just they aren't as in…

A bit off topic, but I'm curious - how did you get started in contracting and how do you go about finding clients? Is it through people you've worked with in the past, or do you somehow advertise yourself? This is something I've considered moving toward but I don't know where to begin. Thanks!

Specialisation helps. Look at what the market wants, is paying well for, and is underserved by. Then you can just look for advertised contract gigs. It's also nice to have one or two contacts who funnel you work, but not essential, if you have an in-demand specialty.
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