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Human behavioral complexity peaks at age 25: study

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Re: Human behavioral complexity peaks at age 25: study

#21

Post by AckSyn »

windlep wrote: post #5

I wonder how/if this relates to the fact that many mental illnesses fully manifest around 25 as well. "Roughly half of all lifetime mental disorders in most studies start by the mid‐teens and three‐fourths by the mid‐20s." - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1925038/

The brain reaches its full maturity around this age so it's unsurprising any mental illnesses reach their own peak in somewhat of a parallel.

As a personal aside, it makes me question the sensibility of letting kids go off to war, vote, drink, or smoke before this age.

Re: Human behavioral complexity peaks at age 25: study

#22

Post by icantdrive55 »

windlep wrote: post #5

I wonder how/if this relates to the fact that many mental illnesses fully manifest around 25 as well. "Roughly half of all lifetime mental disorders in most studies start by the mid‐teens and three‐fourths by the mid‐20s." - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1925038/

Yea, I blew a gasket in my late twenties. ("Blew a gasket" because in all the Therapy/drugs they didn't have a clue.)

1. In had a lot of years to think about the reasons and I think they are many:

Genes, so much pressure in your twenties, wanting to be perfect--in a very imperfect, immoral, unethical society. (I'm talking about America because that's where it happened.) So many societal expectations that after high school you're just suspose to excel at--"Just do it!" It doesn't matter if you have no real support, guidance, or help.

I'm speaking just for men. Because that's all I really know.

Don't take on the elders neuroses, values, beliefs. Realize that even the best parents sometimes want you to succeed, or be happy, but only as successful, and happy as they are. Yes--it's ugly, but it's out there. It's never talked about in Psy 101.

Once you hit puberty, and those hormones flow for the next twenty years like a fire hydrant; realize it's normal to have some f---ing king crazy thoughts, just don't act on them.

We are a few hundred years of waking up looking for something to ejaculate into, and something to kill for breakfast.

We are never told just crazy some of our thoughts are going to be. It was brought up Christian, and I thought Jesus woudn't have my inner dialogue? What's wrong with me?

I could go on, but what's the point; these are just my random thoughts. Just--in your twenties, and early thirties, don't think you can move mountians. I literally thought I could do Anything. I brain one Christmas Eve night said no.

I can honestly say my broken gasket affected my life on so many levels. It's weird. I can be the most capable person is a room, or afraid to walk into the room.

I got lucky with a little bit of money years ago, but I would be homeless if I didn't get that money. You don't need to know how I got the money, but making it didn't hurt the little guy. Ive been a little guy for years now, and the suits are always trying to take the money back. I'm rambling--not feeling great today. Thankfully, it's just getting older though. I hope?

This is just for the mental illness that pop up later in life. It's not geared towards anyone suffering from early on maladies.

I can also add this, go to the Therapy. You might find it works? More importantly, you will find what Doesn't work. You will get better with time. It will lighten up eventually. Don't blow out your liver with medication, including alcohol. Sadly, sometimes, especially for the poor, it's (alcohol) is the only way to get some relief from the daily missery.

Re: Human behavioral complexity peaks at age 25: study

#23

Post by mlpinit »

ue_ wrote: post #14
Cyph0n wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Excellent advice. At the end of my first semester at university, my Calc I professor pulled me aside after class for a chat. We talked about a bunch of things, but one piece of advice in particular stuck with me. He said: "You are lucky to be so privileged - to study at a university for free, to have a supportive family, and to be such a smart and capable student - but you are also quite unlucky. Unlike other less pr…

That's an interesting story, though I find that I oscillate between periods of perceived dread (though, as your Calc professor mentioned, I am privileged in this regard to not have it as much of an issue) and periods of a kind of laid back-ness in which I procrastinate and put things off as much as they possibly could be put off. This has been a recurring problem for me, possibly because the enjoyment of playing game…

You might benefit from this Coursera course [1] "Learning how to Learn". It addresses many of the issues you've mentioned above. It provides a few helpful tricks to combat procrastination and it's straightforward.

https://goo.gl/brJ0qN

Re: Human behavioral complexity peaks at age 25: study

#24

Post by technobabble »

ue_ wrote: post #18
math_and_stuff wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One trick for breaking that is to get addicted to improving your craft. For me, it was originally starting an open source project, but there is something magical about a cup of coffee, a big stack of paper, and a math book that you have just the right prerequisite knowledge for.

My problem may be that I don't have much passion for the subject I'm studying (electronic and computer engineering), as I originally applied to do a different degree. Although I find some parts of the subject interesting (digital systems, perhaps some mathematics), others I find hopelessly hard (analogue electronics and physics). A bad part is that I don't even have a way to evaluate my knowledge against the standard…

I'm not a firm believer in what I consider the common definition of passion. You, and only you, have to make your passion. Personally nothing I've tried jumped out of me. Every career has it's enjoyable, intellectually engaging parts, and it's monotonous, weary parts.

If you want to stick with EE and CompE, sit down and list all of the things you enjoy, no matter how seemingly insignificant.

"For what it’s worth: it’s never too late to be whoever you want to be. I hope you live a life you’re proud of, and if you find you’re not, I hope you have the strength to start over again" - A butchered quote from The Curious Case of Benjamin Button

Re: Human behavioral complexity peaks at age 25: study

#25

Post by iamacynic »

ue_ wrote: post #14
Cyph0n wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Excellent advice. At the end of my first semester at university, my Calc I professor pulled me aside after class for a chat. We talked about a bunch of things, but one piece of advice in particular stuck with me. He said: "You are lucky to be so privileged - to study at a university for free, to have a supportive family, and to be such a smart and capable student - but you are also quite unlucky. Unlike other less pr…

That's an interesting story, though I find that I oscillate between periods of perceived dread (though, as your Calc professor mentioned, I am privileged in this regard to not have it as much of an issue) and periods of a kind of laid back-ness in which I procrastinate and put things off as much as they possibly could be put off. This has been a recurring problem for me, possibly because the enjoyment of playing game…

look. you'll never get good grades, because you don't like school. neither did i. i'd never, ever, ever go back to graduate school. getting C's and barely graduating is perfectly fine. that's a lot better than going crazy trying to excel at something you detest, and dropping out from mental anguish. (very common)

once you really understand this, it takes a tremendous burden off of your own mental state.

then, the trick is to just force yourself to do just enough work to finish with a degree, so that your money is not wasted. and doing that is not really hard. it really isn't.

your goal should be to get on with the rest of your life, not feel bad about the fact that you hate school.

Re: Human behavioral complexity peaks at age 25: study

#26

Post by derefr »

WilliamDhalgren wrote: post #19

yeah, but apparently barely declines untill say 60+. Speed suffers however. "The adult years were remarkable in that complexity remained at a high level for a protracted period, in spite of a slow decrease of speed during the same period. This suggest that during the adult period, people tend to invest more and more computational time to achieve a stable level of output complexity. Later in life (>70), however, speed…

It almost sounds like people try harder and harder to keep up with societal expectations of continued "sharpness"... until they hit some age where cultural norms say they aren't expected to be sharp any more. And then they stop trying, which causes an outsized decline as their lowered expectations of their own capability, feeds into lowered capability, which feeds back into further-lowered expectations.

Re: Human behavioral complexity peaks at age 25: study

#27

Post by derefr »

windlep wrote: post #5

I wonder how/if this relates to the fact that many mental illnesses fully manifest around 25 as well. "Roughly half of all lifetime mental disorders in most studies start by the mid‐teens and three‐fourths by the mid‐20s." - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1925038/

A large part of this is that doctors are wary to diagnose mental disorders in children/teenagers, though. Often, symptoms of mental illness during development are just the brain doing the neurochemical equivalent of "one leg growing faster than the other"—it ends up balancing out.

There is still some element of truth to this, though, especially with bipolar disorder and psychosis. It puts me in mind of the fact that allergies can also manifest around 25... and makes me wonder if there's a connection there.

Re: Human behavioral complexity peaks at age 25: study

#28

Post by WilliamDhalgren »

derefr wrote: post #26
WilliamDhalgren wrote: post #19

yeah, but apparently barely declines untill say 60+. Speed suffers however. "The adult years were remarkable in that complexity remained at a high level for a protracted period, in spite of a slow decrease of speed during the same period. This suggest that during the adult period, people tend to invest more and more computational time to achieve a stable level of output complexity. Later in life (>70), however, speed…

It almost sounds like people try harder and harder to keep up with societal expectations of continued "sharpness"... until they hit some age where cultural norms say they aren't expected to be sharp any more. And then they stop trying, which causes an outsized decline as their lowered expectations of their own capability, feeds into lowered capability, which feeds back into further-lowered expectations.

could be, I really don't know. I can imagine perfectly benign scenarios too; if our long-term memory grows with time, maybe there's just more possible connections/associations to filter out with time too, so that decision just becomes harder, with only the deeper old age being simply tissue decline, the exhaustion of cognitive reserves etc.

Somewhat relatedly, I think I heard on some old Skeptic's guide to the universe episode about an experiment with some nootropic, maybe it was a racetam though I think it was mondafinil, and this kind of reaction time to response accuracy tradeoff was observed, on young healthy adults. Those with less correct answers slowed down, presumably concentrated better and gave better answers, but those already good at whatever the task was simply were slower and yet no better.

Re: Human behavioral complexity peaks at age 25: study

#29

Post by Cyph0n »

ue_ wrote: post #14
Cyph0n wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Excellent advice. At the end of my first semester at university, my Calc I professor pulled me aside after class for a chat. We talked about a bunch of things, but one piece of advice in particular stuck with me. He said: "You are lucky to be so privileged - to study at a university for free, to have a supportive family, and to be such a smart and capable student - but you are also quite unlucky. Unlike other less pr…

That's an interesting story, though I find that I oscillate between periods of perceived dread (though, as your Calc professor mentioned, I am privileged in this regard to not have it as much of an issue) and periods of a kind of laid back-ness in which I procrastinate and put things off as much as they possibly could be put off. This has been a recurring problem for me, possibly because the enjoyment of playing game…

Look, I think everyone procrastinates in one form or another. The key is to know when it's time to procrastinate on the procrastination (meta, huh?). In other words, you have to delay your procrastination to get the job done. It differs from person to person, so you need to find a way to do that effectively. I'm also guilty of procrastinating pretty frequently, but I've figured out how to manage it such that it doesn't affect my grades and/or work performance too much.

Regarding your comment on ECE, I also found that I enjoyed some courses more than others (I did enjoy most though). For example, I absolutely hated my power systems and power electronics courses. The latter was one of the only courses I got a B+ in, so I didn't do well in it either. As one of the other commenters mentioned, you need to get used to the fact that you won't enjoy everything in your field/job. The trick is to learn how to deal with it and get it over with, or try to work on it with someone who loves the topic you hate.

Re: Human behavioral complexity peaks at age 25: study

#30

Post by awkwardtortoise »

EGreg wrote: post #7
ue_ wrote: post #3

I'm 20 years old in my first year of university, and I'm probably going to fail the final exams next week. I don't think I'll be having the chance to take advantage of this peak.

Just because you don't make it in university doesn't mean you can't do some amazing things. I failed my oral exams in the Math Ph. D. Instead of retaking them, I left with a Master's, made a lot of money and started my own company which now has over 4 million users. Also, forget about the peak, if you build value for yourself, you'll have more every year. If you're building value for others and earning money, then in…

What? What does you comment have to do with the topic?

It seems like you got offended by the title, which has nothing to do with what you wrote.

You seem to have a chip on your shoulder about being a failure at math ( or failing to get a PhD ).

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