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Human behavioral complexity peaks at age 25: study

journals.plos.org

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Re: Human behavioral complexity peaks at age 25: study

#11

Post by Cyph0n »

mikekchar wrote: post #9
ue_ wrote: post #3

I'm 20 years old in my first year of university, and I'm probably going to fail the final exams next week. I don't think I'll be having the chance to take advantage of this peak.

When I was in first year (a long time ago), the computer science department was quite new. This meant that courses were held in various different places -- engineering, science, math, etc. Unfortunately, this ultimately meant that I had to pass by the campus pub between every class, with predictable results (drinking age where I lived was 18). Whether you pass or whether you fail will not have as big an impact as you…

Excellent advice.

At the end of my first semester at university, my Calc I professor pulled me aside after class for a chat. We talked about a bunch of things, but one piece of advice in particular stuck with me.

He said: "You are lucky to be so privileged - to study at a university for free, to have a supportive family, and to be such a smart and capable student - but you are also quite unlucky. Unlike other less privileged students around the world, you need to create your own drive. Without motivation, you'll have a tough time overcoming the inevitable difficulties you'll face in the future."

So that's what I ended up doing. Firstly, I started to imagine myself being from a much less fortunate background, and therefore treated my studies as a matter of utmost importance. And secondly, I put a target in my mind for what kind of person I want to be in the far future. I visualized this in quite a bit of detail, sometimes even imagining myself being interviewed! (weird, I know)

A little over 5 years later, I'm in a top 10 PhD program in my field. I'm still not certain this is what I want to do for the next 4 years, but I think I'm on top of it for now. Worst case scenario is I drop out with a MS and enter the workforce. Still, I'm immensely thankful that I have the option to think about this. Many people don't.

Re: Human behavioral complexity peaks at age 25: study

#12

Post by lazaroclapp »

ue_ wrote: post #3

I'm 20 years old in my first year of university, and I'm probably going to fail the final exams next week. I don't think I'll be having the chance to take advantage of this peak.

From the abstract: "Our main finding is that the developmental curve of the estimated algorithmic complexity of responses is similar to what may be expected of a measure of higher cognitive abilities, with a performance peak around 25 and a decline starting around 60"

Based on this and the points in the scatter plot, it looks to me like you have 40 years or so of mostly the same "behavioral complexity" you do now, in expectancy, but with the added benefit of accumulated knowledge. For most tasks, my bet is that the right accumulation of knowledge and learned intuition is a larger factor than any sort of base generative ability. So, rather than giving up, I'd start compounding that learning now, with an eye towards the long term...

Re: Human behavioral complexity peaks at age 25: study

#13

Post by ue_ »

kaeluka wrote: post #8
ue_ wrote: post #3

I'm 20 years old in my first year of university, and I'm probably going to fail the final exams next week. I don't think I'll be having the chance to take advantage of this peak.

Even if that really happens: there's plenty of ways you can spin this into an advantage, long term. An event like this closes some doors, but will also open others. In any case: good luck with the exams! You can do a lot of exam preparation in a week! Don't give up before it's over :-)

Thank you; the pass mark being only 40% has given me some hope. It's been a large step up in terms of volume of content from what I did to get in.

Re: Human behavioral complexity peaks at age 25: study

#14

Post by ue_ »

Cyph0n wrote: post #11
mikekchar wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I was in first year (a long time ago), the computer science department was quite new. This meant that courses were held in various different places -- engineering, science, math, etc. Unfortunately, this ultimately meant that I had to pass by the campus pub between every class, with predictable results (drinking age where I lived was 18). Whether you pass or whether you fail will not have as big an impact as you…

Excellent advice. At the end of my first semester at university, my Calc I professor pulled me aside after class for a chat. We talked about a bunch of things, but one piece of advice in particular stuck with me. He said: "You are lucky to be so privileged - to study at a university for free, to have a supportive family, and to be such a smart and capable student - but you are also quite unlucky. Unlike other less pr…

That's an interesting story, though I find that I oscillate between periods of perceived dread (though, as your Calc professor mentioned, I am privileged in this regard to not have it as much of an issue) and periods of a kind of laid back-ness in which I procrastinate and put things off as much as they possibly could be put off. This has been a recurring problem for me, possibly because the enjoyment of playing games or watching TV is an instant relief and pleasure.. the years of my life after university are distant and contingent.

On one hand I know that I need to work in order to get anywhere, on the other hand I pass it off by saying "you don't have to do this work to succeed". Couple this with the fact that whenever I want to start working there's a huge mass of things to choose from and I don't know where to start with it, or that I have very little willpower to stay with a question if I don't make progress.

It's hard, and I fear I may never learn. I tried to study in the library but alas no habit formed, even after a few weeks. I had diminishing returns by doing that.

Re: Human behavioral complexity peaks at age 25: study

#15

Post by jacquesm »

EGreg wrote: post #7
ue_ wrote: post #3

I'm 20 years old in my first year of university, and I'm probably going to fail the final exams next week. I don't think I'll be having the chance to take advantage of this peak.

Just because you don't make it in university doesn't mean you can't do some amazing things. I failed my oral exams in the Math Ph. D. Instead of retaking them, I left with a Master's, made a lot of money and started my own company which now has over 4 million users. Also, forget about the peak, if you build value for yourself, you'll have more every year. If you're building value for others and earning money, then in…

In fact, if money is what you're after you are probably better of getting the degree and then leaving academics, I don't know many people who stayed in the academic circuit and ended up being well off.

Re: Human behavioral complexity peaks at age 25: study

#17

Post by math_and_stuff »

ue_ wrote: post #14
Cyph0n wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Excellent advice. At the end of my first semester at university, my Calc I professor pulled me aside after class for a chat. We talked about a bunch of things, but one piece of advice in particular stuck with me. He said: "You are lucky to be so privileged - to study at a university for free, to have a supportive family, and to be such a smart and capable student - but you are also quite unlucky. Unlike other less pr…

That's an interesting story, though I find that I oscillate between periods of perceived dread (though, as your Calc professor mentioned, I am privileged in this regard to not have it as much of an issue) and periods of a kind of laid back-ness in which I procrastinate and put things off as much as they possibly could be put off. This has been a recurring problem for me, possibly because the enjoyment of playing game…

One trick for breaking that is to get addicted to improving your craft. For me, it was originally starting an open source project, but there is something magical about a cup of coffee, a big stack of paper, and a math book that you have just the right prerequisite knowledge for.

Re: Human behavioral complexity peaks at age 25: study

#18

Post by ue_ »

math_and_stuff wrote: post #17
ue_ wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's an interesting story, though I find that I oscillate between periods of perceived dread (though, as your Calc professor mentioned, I am privileged in this regard to not have it as much of an issue) and periods of a kind of laid back-ness in which I procrastinate and put things off as much as they possibly could be put off. This has been a recurring problem for me, possibly because the enjoyment of playing game…

One trick for breaking that is to get addicted to improving your craft. For me, it was originally starting an open source project, but there is something magical about a cup of coffee, a big stack of paper, and a math book that you have just the right prerequisite knowledge for.

My problem may be that I don't have much passion for the subject I'm studying (electronic and computer engineering), as I originally applied to do a different degree. Although I find some parts of the subject interesting (digital systems, perhaps some mathematics), others I find hopelessly hard (analogue electronics and physics). A bad part is that I don't even have a way to evaluate my knowledge against the standard which is expected of me; the course is new, and the past papers contain material which may or may not be relevant or taught before. Could I have an impostor syndrome, or do I really not know enough?

Motivation may be what I need, or perhaps it is discipline? I can't stick with things. I will relate an example without hyperbole; today I was trying to find three unknown variables in three equations (A), using matrices first by combining with the identity matrix (I), as (A|I), then forcing zeroes into the bottom left and top right corners of A, and dividing through to transform A into the identity matrix, what is left is A^(-1).

I repeatedly failed to get the correct answer, probably due to some silly arithmetic error. I gave up and started to watch old episodes of Simpsons and read HN.

Re: Human behavioral complexity peaks at age 25: study

#19

Post by WilliamDhalgren »

yeah, but apparently barely declines untill say 60+. Speed suffers however.

"The adult years were remarkable in that complexity remained at a high level for a protracted period, in spite of a slow decrease of speed during the same period. This suggest that during the adult period, people tend to invest more and more computational time to achieve a stable level of output complexity. Later in life (>70), however, speed stabilizes, while complexity drops in a dramatic way."

and

"These speed-accuracy trade-offs were evident in the adult years, including the turn toward old age. During childhood, however, no similar pattern is discernible. This suggests that aging cannot simply be considered a “regression”, and that CT (completion time) and complexity provide different complementary information. This is again supported by the fact that in the 25–60 year range, where the effect of age is reduced, CT and complexity are uncorrelated (r = −.012, p = .53). These findings add to a rapidly growing literature that views RIG tasks as good measures of complex cognitive abilities [21, for a review]."

Re: Human behavioral complexity peaks at age 25: study

#20

Post by bootload »

ue_ wrote: post #3

I'm 20 years old in my first year of university, and I'm probably going to fail the final exams next week. I don't think I'll be having the chance to take advantage of this peak.

"I'm probably going to fail the final exams next week."

You can improve on mental toughness to control emotion. It is not a fixed skill. Four skills needed to overcome ^fear^ and ^panic^ is through control of the limbic system: [0]

  - Positive self talk
  - Goal setting of tasks
  - Mental rehearsal of tasks 
  - Arousal control (breathing)
[0] "Mental Training" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZ-24JtAFQw
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