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How Homeownership Became the Engine of American Inequality

nytimes.com

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Re: How Homeownership Became the Engine of American Inequality

#91

Post by njharman »

pkaye wrote: post #14
arielweisberg wrote: post #2

When I crunched the numbers for the mortgage interest deduction it really didn't seem that compelling. It replaces the standard deduction so the first 12,500$ in mortgage interest does nothing for you. After that it's just a minor reduction in taxable income and your tax burden is only reduced by a fraction of your mortgage interest. Not enough to cover the costs of maintaining a home and the tendency to consume more…

The MID barely cancels out my property taxes. Imagine if your investment accounts had to pay 1% tax every year based on its current worth even if you didn't realize any profits.

Imagine other investments supplying roads, police, fire, parks, and education (or at least a place to store kids during work day) for 12 years.

Re: How Homeownership Became the Engine of American Inequality

#92

Post by rb808 »

komali2 wrote: post #62
kcorbitt wrote: post #25

So this article advocates for the removal of the mortgage interest tax deduction, because subsidizing home ownership leads to a larger economic divide between owners and renters. As a renter, I appreciate the intent, and I also appreciate any measure to simplify the tax code. That said, I also see compelling arguments in the deduction's favor. The sad truth is that most Americans are terrible at saving and in very po…

Regarding 2: I cannot wait to pay off my debts (scheduled in September!) and start putting money in IRA and 401(k) :) Every time someone asks me if I'm using the 401k I always feel sheepish answering "no... because I have debts with a higher interest rate than I'd get on the return..." Nobody seems to buy it but I've run the math again and again, it's just true.

> "no... because I have debts with a higher interest rate than I'd get on the return..."

Sorry to tell you now but this is the wrong way of looking at it.

The 401k will save you from paying tax the next 50 years. The first few years you might be a little behind but its worth it because later you'll have your contributions throttled. (assuming you can pay that much in)

Re: How Homeownership Became the Engine of American Inequality

#93

Post by jayess »

kcorbitt wrote: post #25

So this article advocates for the removal of the mortgage interest tax deduction, because subsidizing home ownership leads to a larger economic divide between owners and renters. As a renter, I appreciate the intent, and I also appreciate any measure to simplify the tax code. That said, I also see compelling arguments in the deduction's favor. The sad truth is that most Americans are terrible at saving and in very po…

Renters get absolutely screwed. Not only is there a mortgage interest deduction, I live in an area that has a special tax on rent. So not only do we pay property tax through the landlord (and probably a higher property tax for non-primary residences), we get a sales tax on top of that, being a tax on the tax.

Either end the mortgage interest deduction or allow rent to be deducted (at least in part).

Re: How Homeownership Became the Engine of American Inequality

#95

Post by microdrum »

spaceflunky wrote: post #77

This article is incredibly misguided for several reasons... 1.) If you truly are "rich," then you pay for your home in cash. You do not take out a mortgage on your house. Look at a distribution of loan amounts, the vast majority are around $600k. Very few are are >$1M [0]. Home loans are a product for middle-class Americans. 2.) A lot of rich people don't really pay income taxes like middle class people do. This is s…

This, 1,000x.

There are a lot of families making $1 million gross ($500K net) in income. They live in SF and NY. Both parents work 10 hour days. They live in an uncomfortably small house and have a $1 million mortgage. They can barely save for college after paying for childcare costs and the mortgage. But they're "rich." Yeah, right.

Re: How Homeownership Became the Engine of American Inequality

#96

Post by kcorbitt »

komali2 wrote: post #62
kcorbitt wrote: post #25

So this article advocates for the removal of the mortgage interest tax deduction, because subsidizing home ownership leads to a larger economic divide between owners and renters. As a renter, I appreciate the intent, and I also appreciate any measure to simplify the tax code. That said, I also see compelling arguments in the deduction's favor. The sad truth is that most Americans are terrible at saving and in very po…

Regarding 2: I cannot wait to pay off my debts (scheduled in September!) and start putting money in IRA and 401(k) :) Every time someone asks me if I'm using the 401k I always feel sheepish answering "no... because I have debts with a higher interest rate than I'd get on the return..." Nobody seems to buy it but I've run the math again and again, it's just true.

Totally, there are people who have higher-leverage savings strategies than investing in a 401(k), like paying off debt in your case. In the end, the most important number to track is your savings rate (total consumption / total income). If you have a savings rate of at least 25% and can maintain that throughout your working career, don't worry, you'll retire rich. :)

Re: How Homeownership Became the Engine of American Inequality

#97

Post by [deleted] »

accountyaccount wrote: post #61
kemiller wrote: post #49

Removing the MID would make middle-to-upper-middle-class people poorer, and so reduce inequality that way, but would it help poor people at all? The net monthly cost of housing would stay the same, just shift the proportion of your payment that goes to the government vs the bank. It's true that it's regressive, but I'm skeptical that's a huge factor. I think it would just help landlords, who would retain the ability…

I think adding an upper limit to MID would serve everyone well.

[deleted]

Re: How Homeownership Became the Engine of American Inequality

#99

Post by JackFr »

kcorbitt wrote: post #80
aswanson wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a massive bet on a local employment market in an increasingly volatile economy. It's not an unalloyed good incentive.

Totally. All else being equal, socking away your money in broadly-diversified index funds within a tax-advantaged account is a more reliable strategy for wealth building than buying a single house in a random market. But human psychology gets a much bigger kick out of owning your own home than owning very small slices of profitable companies in 191 countries, and when public policy and human psychology collide, human…

It's not human psychology so much as having, you know, a place to live...

(In overheated markets, 'rent+invest' can be better than 'own', but a full accounting needs to consider the cost of a living arrangement.)

Re: How Homeownership Became the Engine of American Inequality

#100

Post by snuxoll »

komali2 wrote: post #62
kcorbitt wrote: post #25

So this article advocates for the removal of the mortgage interest tax deduction, because subsidizing home ownership leads to a larger economic divide between owners and renters. As a renter, I appreciate the intent, and I also appreciate any measure to simplify the tax code. That said, I also see compelling arguments in the deduction's favor. The sad truth is that most Americans are terrible at saving and in very po…

Regarding 2: I cannot wait to pay off my debts (scheduled in September!) and start putting money in IRA and 401(k) :) Every time someone asks me if I'm using the 401k I always feel sheepish answering "no... because I have debts with a higher interest rate than I'd get on the return..." Nobody seems to buy it but I've run the math again and again, it's just true.

Something worth keeping in mind is employer matching as well as the ability to take loans from your 401(K). My employer matches up to 6% of my salary at 150% (man is this awesome), the past year I've been putting my 6% in and just last month I took half of everything (including the employer match) out as a loan to pay off debts at 4.25% APR. The money would perform better in the market than the interest I'm paying back to myself, but I'm not throwing money away on interest to the banks and instead paying it back to myself while continuing to make my regular contributions.
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