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How Homeownership Became the Engine of American Inequality

nytimes.com

61–70 of 222 posts

Re: How Homeownership Became the Engine of American Inequality

#61

Removing the MID would make middle-to-upper-middle-class people poorer, and so reduce inequality that way, but would it help poor people at all? The net monthly cost of housing would stay the same, just shift the proportion of your payment that goes to the government vs the bank. It's true that it's regressive, but I'm skeptical that's a huge factor. I think it would just help landlords, who would retain the ability…

I think adding an upper limit to MID would serve everyone well.

Re: How Homeownership Became the Engine of American Inequality

#62

So this article advocates for the removal of the mortgage interest tax deduction, because subsidizing home ownership leads to a larger economic divide between owners and renters. As a renter, I appreciate the intent, and I also appreciate any measure to simplify the tax code. That said, I also see compelling arguments in the deduction's favor. The sad truth is that most Americans are terrible at saving and in very po…

Regarding 2: I cannot wait to pay off my debts (scheduled in September!) and start putting money in IRA and 401(k) :) Every time someone asks me if I'm using the 401k I always feel sheepish answering "no... because I have debts with a higher interest rate than I'd get on the return..." Nobody seems to buy it but I've run the math again and again, it's just true.

Re: How Homeownership Became the Engine of American Inequality

#63

So this article advocates for the removal of the mortgage interest tax deduction, because subsidizing home ownership leads to a larger economic divide between owners and renters. As a renter, I appreciate the intent, and I also appreciate any measure to simplify the tax code. That said, I also see compelling arguments in the deduction's favor. The sad truth is that most Americans are terrible at saving and in very po…

Savings are only part of the equation. Home ownership lowers income mobility by reducing the competitiveness of the labor market and increasing commuting costs.

Worse it promotes moving to areas with the maximum possible jobs which destroys smaller towns and city's while creating even worse congestion.

Re: How Homeownership Became the Engine of American Inequality

#64
The mathematics of the MID are dumb; the optics are what sell it. If it lets someone making, say, $100K a year able to spend 30% more on a house payment, it also enables everyone else making 100K/year to pay that much more. So the same people compete for the same houses. Its main effect is to push up the commissions the agents pay and increase the amount of interest banks earn. It doesn't actually help the person buying the house.

Except that if you're in an increasing market it can push the sale price up.

A fetish for home ownership also screws up labor force mobility and reduces the granularity of variations in cost of living (some of which is discussed here). We'd be better off if large, publicly traded corporations owned most of the housing stock and provided it on long term lease (which is almost the situation today, but in the most complicated fashion possible). Then nobody would be "tied to the land".

Re: How Homeownership Became the Engine of American Inequality

#65

So this article advocates for the removal of the mortgage interest tax deduction, because subsidizing home ownership leads to a larger economic divide between owners and renters. As a renter, I appreciate the intent, and I also appreciate any measure to simplify the tax code. That said, I also see compelling arguments in the deduction's favor. The sad truth is that most Americans are terrible at saving and in very po…

It's a massive bet on a local employment market in an increasingly volatile economy. It's not an unalloyed good incentive.

Re: How Homeownership Became the Engine of American Inequality

#66

I don't know of anyone who bases a home purchase decision on the mortgage interest deduction. Seriously location, school district, cost of home, time to commute, yard size, cost of HOA are all more important to everyone I know. In fact it has never come up in conversations about home purchases with my peer group.

I did to some extent. I bought at the right time in one of the most expensive housing markets and I'm saving ~$500 a month because of MID. I couldn't even have a stable savings account until I bought a house.

Re: How Homeownership Became the Engine of American Inequality

#67
From the article: "She goes without a savings account and regularly relies on credit cards to buy toilet paper and soap."

Maintaining a relatively constant credit card debt (which is what it usually meant by "relying on credit cards" for routine purchases) is often more of a financial literacy problem than an income problem. It's obviously harder to get out of this trap on a low income, but if you're servicing your debt -- and if you're living off of credit cards long-term you have to be -- then your average income actually matches your average expenditures, including credit card interest charges. Someone in that situation would be so much better off if they could just pull together the few $1000's necessary to pay off the debt, and then start slowly accumulating savings from the money that would otherwise go towards interest payments. Unfortunately, the people I know who live on credit card debt seem willing to spend any small windfall that comes their way immediately, instead of using it to pay down those high-interest loans and start saving.

I have a brother-in-law who's in this situation. He makes $90k and has no dependents, but seems to have constant credit card debt that fluctuates between $10-$20k. That's an extra $1500-$3000 free and clear he could have every year by just paying off his cards and pocketing those interest payments, but for whatever reason he sees things differently and is totally content to carry that balance indefinitely.

Re: How Homeownership Became the Engine of American Inequality

#69
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It might make more sense to kill the tax break on properties north of $1m and shift that to relief for renters under a certain income threshold. You'd leave in place the break for the majority of middle-income wealth builders, close yet another loophole for the wealthy, and enrich lower income renters. It would never ever happen with our current political climate (money is influence), but I feel like it would make se…

Interest is only deductible on the first $1m of a loan already.

Right, I'm saying if a property requires a loan of $1m+ you'd kill MID entirely — including the first $1m.

Re: How Homeownership Became the Engine of American Inequality

#70

So this article advocates for the removal of the mortgage interest tax deduction, because subsidizing home ownership leads to a larger economic divide between owners and renters. As a renter, I appreciate the intent, and I also appreciate any measure to simplify the tax code. That said, I also see compelling arguments in the deduction's favor. The sad truth is that most Americans are terrible at saving and in very po…

It might make more sense to kill the tax break on properties north of $1m and shift that to relief for renters under a certain income threshold. You'd leave in place the break for the majority of middle-income wealth builders, close yet another loophole for the wealthy, and enrich lower income renters. It would never ever happen with our current political climate (money is influence), but I feel like it would make se…

Shift the relief to renters by doing __everything__ possible to have more rental units on the market. The only way to ensure competition in this space is to have over-supply of potential units so that bad pricing and poor service have the relief valve of moving somewhere else (near by).
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