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Norway's Progress Party calls for ban on circumcision for boys

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Re: Norway's Progress Party calls for ban on circumcision for boys

#71

Post by Mithaldu »

moshei wrote: post #64
spraak wrote: post #5

It's genital mutilation. There's no medical reason [1]. Yes, having a foreskin means you need to clean it regularly (or your caregiver if you're a baby). And then there are disgusting things like this [2]: > In a practice that takes place during a ceremony known as the bris, a circumcision practitioner, or mohel, removes the foreskin from the baby's penis, and with his mouth sucks the blood from the incision to clean…

Calling this mutilation is absurd, I am circumcised and so is my son - it was way more traumatic for me seeing, then it was for him feeling t - many babies do not even cry. I suggest you do a little more research on what genital mutilation really means in the 3rd world, circumcision is no worse than some injections by comparison. There is a very valid medical reason for this - it prevents sexually transmitted disease…

That link had already been posted: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14292131

Also, whether something is mutilation or not is about more than how much it hurts when it's done. In this case a child is deprived of a part of their body that performs a clear biological function.

Re: Norway's Progress Party calls for ban on circumcision for boys

#73

Post by dade_ »

ythn wrote: post #31
grandalf wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> brainwashed No but the parents who did it may have been. > subjugated and deprived of rights as children Those who were mutilated without giving consent were harmed in a way that could be significant. I certainly would not consent to it as an adult.

> I certainly would not consent to it as an adult. Nor would I. However, if I could go back in time and retroactively give my parents consent to do it when I wouldn't remember it, then I would.

Very personal question, but if you don't mind sharing: Why do you want to be circumcised? As it is a minor surgery and very low risk, and as I understand it, the pain is easily managed with medication so why won't you consider it? I am not encouraging anyone to do anything, just interested in your perspective.

Re: Norway's Progress Party calls for ban on circumcision for boys

#74

Post by jbtule »

tarkin2 wrote: post #53
spraak wrote: post #5

It's genital mutilation. There's no medical reason [1]. Yes, having a foreskin means you need to clean it regularly (or your caregiver if you're a baby). And then there are disgusting things like this [2]: > In a practice that takes place during a ceremony known as the bris, a circumcision practitioner, or mohel, removes the foreskin from the baby's penis, and with his mouth sucks the blood from the incision to clean…

Look up phimosis. At two minute Google search could have found this. It's a valid medical reason for the operation. Not to mention the above mentioned. Not only do your facts not hold up to a brief Google, but the reputation of the people suggesting this could have made you think twice. Twice about the possible motivations. And that could have given you again doubts. And calling it mutilation implies those who have a…

The parent post, makes allowances for medical exceptions in their footnote. The point is there's no medical reason to circumcise en-mass or by default. Norway's ban is for ritual circumcision, which is not by a doctor.

Re: Norway's Progress Party calls for ban on circumcision for boys

#75

Post by weeznerps »

ythn wrote: post #19

This is one of those topics where people have extremely strong opinions, yet the vast majority of people affected by this practice (circumcised males) have no opinion or even a favorable opinion of their circumcision.

south korea has high rates of circumcision in adulthood, so relevant data (people who would know the difference between how it feels to be circumcised vs uncircumcised) exists

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/MG_Pang/publication/664...

Re: Norway's Progress Party calls for ban on circumcision for boys

#76

Post by moshei »

mmastrac wrote: post #2

I don't understand how parents are allowed to make major, irreversible, cosmetic medical decisions for children on their behalf. I'm not against circumcision, but it should be the choice of someone who is able to consent.

By the age you would be able to consent (between 13 and 18 years depending on country) it would be a major surgical procedure involving days or weeks of pain, not the few minutes a baby experiences.

Babies are remarkable in their ability to heal and adapt.

Re: Norway's Progress Party calls for ban on circumcision for boys

#77

Post by wyager »

pugio wrote: post #62

Let's add some nuance: Circumcision, for (orthodox) Jews, is one of the most fundamental conditions for identification and belonging to that group. Leaving a Jewish male baby uncircumcised would most likely lead to feelings of alienation and isolation later on in life – feelings which could have significant psychological impact and could largely negate the benefits one gains from strong communal structures. Regardles…

The same is true for female genital mutilation in certain Islamic cultures. I still don't think "it's culturally important" is a reasonable defense, and I doubt you do either.

And just to cut off this objection, the vast majority of female circumcision involves removal of the clitoral hood, which is (mutatis mutandis) anatomically equivalent to removal of the foreskin and has similar effects and risks.

Re: Norway's Progress Party calls for ban on circumcision for boys

#78

Post by bluejekyll »

pugio wrote: post #62

Let's add some nuance: Circumcision, for (orthodox) Jews, is one of the most fundamental conditions for identification and belonging to that group. Leaving a Jewish male baby uncircumcised would most likely lead to feelings of alienation and isolation later on in life – feelings which could have significant psychological impact and could largely negate the benefits one gains from strong communal structures. Regardles…

No. Full stop. Just as with female genital mutilation, male genital mutilation should be banned. For religious purposes this proposal should fit:

https://www.google.com/amp/www.newsweek.com/fgm-compromise-n...

That is a nick, not full mutilation.

Re: Norway's Progress Party calls for ban on circumcision for boys

#79

Post by Boothroid »

bluejekyll wrote: post #70
Boothroid wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. And last time I checked Jewish people have a place to live that is violently protective of their way of life, namely Israel.

Please don't make this about any specific religion's practices. That wasn't exactly my point. Only that the welfare of the child should trump religion. In the US there is also a practice that all? hospitals offer this practice as just an additional procedure after birth. This should be stopped, and that is non-religious, it's almost worse because it's nearly thoughtless.

Hang on a minute - the article is explicitly about Jews/Israel!!!

'Jewish leader urges Israel to exert political influence in fight for religious freedom in Europe.'

Re: Norway's Progress Party calls for ban on circumcision for boys

#80

Post by RightMillennial »

grandalf wrote: post #37
amscanne wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is very common in Latin American cultures. In Mexico, they literally do it at the hospital before you leave. (They don't do this in the U.S., but a good portion of Latin Americans - I'd wager majority - will get it done at six months.)

While I would not do it to an infant, it's not a sex organ and will restore to fully healed/closed status if left alone for a few weeks, so it's hard to compare this to removing part of a sex organ that will not re-grow.

Please, it's a little bit of skin. As with any other trivial procedure, as long as it is properly performed there are no adverse side effects.
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