Yesterday I would argue this is unimaginable, someone being investigated for blasphemy in 2017 (in the west). We are dropping the ball on free speech. We chipping away on our liberties bit by bit. This is why hate speech laws are dangerous.
it's ireland... abortion is still illegal in nearly all circumstances, divorce was only legalised in 1997 and only in very specific circumstances
Stephen Fry under police investigation for blasphemy in Ireland [video]
41–48 of 48 posts
Re: Stephen Fry under police investigation for blasphemy in Ireland [video]
#42Earlier quoted context omitted.
I agree with you in principle. What I was trying to say is that hate speech laws (and laws of similar spirit) tend to be written vaguely and leave room for unfavourable interpretation. Particularly in current climate, governments seem to be all too happy to sacrifice liberties under the disguise of protecting this or that (perceived as oppressed) minority.
Is the alternative a free-for-all against minorities (perceived as oppressed?).
I might be misunderstanding you, but of course not. Equal rights for all. Egalitarianism. But it seems as though these laws, well meaning or misguided as they may be, give special privileges to certain groups. Rather then preserving true equality and liberty for all.
Re: Stephen Fry under police investigation for blasphemy in Ireland [video]
#43Earlier quoted context omitted.
It is legitimate but it is also of the sophomoric category of questions. As for Islam that you mention, there are no such issues in Islam. Stephen Fry is arguing the same position that Satan does in the Qur'an, pointing out 'errors' in God's judgment. The Angels question God too in the Qur'an, but they do it very politely ..
Yes - and I agree with you, it's banal and in some ways a very Stephen Fryish question to ask - but asking a simplistic question is not to my knowledge, a crime.
I wasn't addressing the crime bit.
Positively, blasphemy laws are designed to keep such conversations limited to informed circles, and negatively of course they are a means of maintaining doctrinal control over the masses.
Re: Stephen Fry under police investigation for blasphemy in Ireland [video]
#44Earlier quoted context omitted.
I agree with you in principle. What I was trying to say is that hate speech laws (and laws of similar spirit) tend to be written vaguely and leave room for unfavourable interpretation. Particularly in current climate, governments seem to be all too happy to sacrifice liberties under the disguise of protecting this or that (perceived as oppressed) minority.
Is the alternative a free-for-all against minorities (perceived as oppressed?).
I don't have a better alternative yet, but I can't help but think after observing the way things have played out the last couple decades that policing negative speech against minorities isn't the way to help them. I sympathize with the sentiment of lending a hand to the downtrodden, but the policy itself doesn't seem to work.
Re: Stephen Fry under police investigation for blasphemy in Ireland [video]
#45Earlier quoted context omitted.
It is legitimate but it is also of the sophomoric category of questions. As for Islam that you mention, there are no such issues in Islam. Stephen Fry is arguing the same position that Satan does in the Qur'an, pointing out 'errors' in God's judgment. The Angels question God too in the Qur'an, but they do it very politely ..
Hmm... >Those who annoy Allah and His Messenger – Allah has cursed them in this World and in the Hereafter, and has prepared for them a humiliating Punishment... >They shall have a curse on them: whenever they are found, they shall be seized and slain (without mercy). [Quran 33:57–61] You could argue calling Allah “stupid” and an “utter maniac” might annoy him, hypothetically.
"Allah and His Messenger" is a technical term. You are likely misreading this as indicating 2 distinct points of view as in "A and B both think X".
> You could argue calling Allah “stupid” and an “utter maniac” might annoy him, hypothetically.
It depends where you do this. In general Allah claims, very much like Krishna, to have perfect 'detachment', so arguably IT does not give a fig.
Re: Stephen Fry under police investigation for blasphemy in Ireland [video]
#46Yesterday I would argue this is unimaginable, someone being investigated for blasphemy in 2017 (in the west). We are dropping the ball on free speech. We chipping away on our liberties bit by bit. This is why hate speech laws are dangerous.
It won't go anywhere. Bizarrely the Irish blasphemy law is designed to be basically unenforceable, a fact admitted by the very minister who implemented it to much backlash at the time. The Irish government didn't even want a blasphemy law - it was forced to write one to fill a hole in the law caused by a reference to blasphemy in the Constitution. An early blasphemy law had been removed but removing it from law entir…
A law isn't unenforceable until it is no longer a law.
Re: Stephen Fry under police investigation for blasphemy in Ireland [video]
#47This is a trial I'd like to watch.
Some of us would rather that such investigations never came to be, never mind for such charges to reach trial. Think of it this way: how many people have expressed similar views? Do we really want to put those people on trial for providing rational responses to hypothetical questions?
Many of us have been trying to get this to trial. It’s the most direct way to defeat a law.
Re: Stephen Fry under police investigation for blasphemy in Ireland [video]
#48Earlier quoted context omitted.
... together with Laurie, Atkinson, Smith, Jones and a handful+1 others. Many gods.
One of my favourite sketches on religion is from Atkinson's live show when the devil, Toby, welcomes people to hell [1]. It satirises Pascal's Wager [2] and the general issue of most peoples lack of reasoned choice of religion so casually and effectively after various easy digs at the usual victims. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91DSNL1BEeY [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal's_Wager
I love all sketches, of that performance, especially the best man. But yes, that is a very good one and Atkinson is a genious although most people know him as Mr Bean where he is a less obvious genious.