This is troubling. This a legitimate philosophical problem that dates back to Epicurus, Hume, Kant. It's something theologians since Aquinas have wrestled with, and that modern philosophers such have taken up. It applies as much to Christianity as it does to Judaism and Islam. There's no reason for this to be covered by blasphemy laws, even if you accepted blasphemy laws as legitimate.
Stephen Fry under police investigation for blasphemy in Ireland [video]
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Re: Stephen Fry under police investigation for blasphemy in Ireland [video]
#12Yesterday I would argue this is unimaginable, someone being investigated for blasphemy in 2017 (in the west). We are dropping the ball on free speech. We chipping away on our liberties bit by bit. This is why hate speech laws are dangerous.
It won't go anywhere. Bizarrely the Irish blasphemy law is designed to be basically unenforceable, a fact admitted by the very minister who implemented it to much backlash at the time. The Irish government didn't even want a blasphemy law - it was forced to write one to fill a hole in the law caused by a reference to blasphemy in the Constitution. An early blasphemy law had been removed but removing it from law entir…
The government has even expressed an intent to get rid of the law - http://www.merrionstreet.ie/MerrionStreet/en/ImageLibrary/Pr...
It's still pretty embarrassing that this sort of thing can happen. I hope the negative attention this will bring will force some progress on the matter.
Re: Stephen Fry under police investigation for blasphemy in Ireland [video]
#13Yesterday I would argue this is unimaginable, someone being investigated for blasphemy in 2017 (in the west). We are dropping the ball on free speech. We chipping away on our liberties bit by bit. This is why hate speech laws are dangerous.
it's ireland... abortion is still illegal in nearly all circumstances, divorce was only legalised in 1997 and only in very specific circumstances
1995 ;)
Re: Stephen Fry under police investigation for blasphemy in Ireland [video]
#14Yesterday I would argue this is unimaginable, someone being investigated for blasphemy in 2017 (in the west). We are dropping the ball on free speech. We chipping away on our liberties bit by bit. This is why hate speech laws are dangerous.
It won't go anywhere. Bizarrely the Irish blasphemy law is designed to be basically unenforceable, a fact admitted by the very minister who implemented it to much backlash at the time. The Irish government didn't even want a blasphemy law - it was forced to write one to fill a hole in the law caused by a reference to blasphemy in the Constitution. An early blasphemy law had been removed but removing it from law entir…
The Irish constitution was written after a war of independence immediately followed by a civil war. Ireland was a mix of socialist dictatorship and theocracy at the time. The constitution is very weird and causes issues like this. It needs to be changed. Though in fairness the progress we have made socially has been extremely rapid and profound.
Have a look at the film "The rocky road to Dublin", a documentary about life in Ireland in the 60's, made by an outsider. To see how bad things were until that recently (Its like Iran under the Shah or something)
Re: Stephen Fry under police investigation for blasphemy in Ireland [video]
#15Earlier quoted context omitted.
Indeed. Apparently the most powerful entity in the entire universe needs government protection from the opinion of Stephen Fry. Doesn't seem like a fair fight to me.
I thought Stephen Fry was the most powerful entity in the universe.
... together with Laurie, Atkinson, Smith, Jones and a handful+1 others. Many gods.
Re: Stephen Fry under police investigation for blasphemy in Ireland [video]
#16This is troubling. This a legitimate philosophical problem that dates back to Epicurus, Hume, Kant. It's something theologians since Aquinas have wrestled with, and that modern philosophers such have taken up. It applies as much to Christianity as it does to Judaism and Islam. There's no reason for this to be covered by blasphemy laws, even if you accepted blasphemy laws as legitimate.
It is legitimate but it is also of the sophomoric category of questions. As for Islam that you mention, there are no such issues in Islam.
Stephen Fry is arguing the same position that Satan does in the Qur'an, pointing out 'errors' in God's judgment.
The Angels question God too in the Qur'an, but they do it very politely ..
Re: Stephen Fry under police investigation for blasphemy in Ireland [video]
#17This is troubling. This a legitimate philosophical problem that dates back to Epicurus, Hume, Kant. It's something theologians since Aquinas have wrestled with, and that modern philosophers such have taken up. It applies as much to Christianity as it does to Judaism and Islam. There's no reason for this to be covered by blasphemy laws, even if you accepted blasphemy laws as legitimate.
It is legitimate but it is also of the sophomoric category of questions. As for Islam that you mention, there are no such issues in Islam. Stephen Fry is arguing the same position that Satan does in the Qur'an, pointing out 'errors' in God's judgment. The Angels question God too in the Qur'an, but they do it very politely ..
Yes - and I agree with you, it's banal and in some ways a very Stephen Fryish question to ask - but asking a simplistic question is not to my knowledge, a crime.
Re: Stephen Fry under police investigation for blasphemy in Ireland [video]
#18the article links to a post from the Irish Independent Online which gives more detail:
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/garda-launch-blasp...
Reading between the lines, this looks more like an attempt to challenge the blasphemy law than to punish Stephen Fry. From the link above:
"[The complainant] said he was asked by the garda if he had been personally offended by the programme and If he wished to include this in the written statement.
I told the Garda that I did not want to include this as I had not personally been offended by Fry's comments - I added that I simply believed that the comments made by Fry on RTÉ were criminal blasphemy and that I was doing my civic duty by reporting a crime."
Atheist Ireland responded by republishing a list of blasphemous statements on their website, atheist.ie, in solidarity with Stephen Fry. They note:
"If we are prosecuted, we will challenge the constitutionality of the blasphemy law. If we are not prosecuted, it will again highlight the absurdity of this law, which should be repealed immediately. We again call on the Irish Government to honour its commitment to hold a referendum to remove the ban on blasphemy from our Constitution."
What is troubling is that, though the law was designed to be unenforceable in Ireland, it has been used as a template for corresponding law in theocratic countries such as "Pakistan and other repressive states".
Re: Stephen Fry under police investigation for blasphemy in Ireland [video]
#19No one expects the Irish Inquisition!
Re: Stephen Fry under police investigation for blasphemy in Ireland [video]
#20Yesterday I would argue this is unimaginable, someone being investigated for blasphemy in 2017 (in the west). We are dropping the ball on free speech. We chipping away on our liberties bit by bit. This is why hate speech laws are dangerous.
it's ireland... abortion is still illegal in nearly all circumstances, divorce was only legalised in 1997 and only in very specific circumstances
Abortion aside, Ireland is in fact much more progressive and liberally minded than the US and most of southern Europe.
These comments were made during an interview on the Irish public broadcasting network; just for a comparison, in Italy nobody would have even dared to speak their mind so clearly about God on tv, or the show would have likely been cancelled. Twenty years ago the sitcom "Father Ted" became the most popular show in Ireland, and it would be still considered too blasphemous to be aired by any of the major tv networks in Italy.