French election: Macron defeats Le Pen • Hacker News Board

Re: French election: Macron defeats Le Pen

#111

Post by blibble » Sun, May 07, 2017, 7:36 PM UTC

pinaceae wrote: post #74

The most successful peace project on European soil of the last 1000 years can continue. Naysayers of the EU need to learn history. It is worth every penny, every inch of inconvenience. TWO fucking world wars were started by Europe, by nations that formed the Coal/Steel Union after 45 and now enjoy the longest, uninterrupted period of peace since, like, EVER. The EU's economy is the largest in the world. You don't fuc…

so the peace was nothing to do with the fact the USSR had several million troops, tens of thousands of nuclear weapons and a few thousand tanks 10 miles away?

former largest economy: after brexit the EU27 economy will be smaller than the US

Re: French election: Macron defeats Le Pen

#112

Post by type0 » Sun, May 07, 2017, 7:36 PM UTC

deanCommie wrote: post #65

wsc981 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a European I see this as a huge concern. Choosing Macron means keeping the status quo, which means continued mass immigration, continued bad economic policy, etc... in Europe. I am sure the bankers will be glad as will the European Commission and the multinationals, but the common people will become disillusioned in a few years as more and more terrorist attacks will happen into Europe and the problems with the ec…

Have you and your European friends tried actually addressing some of the racist beliefs you casually take for granted which lead you to discriminate against immigrants when it comes to integration into society? (They are always considered lesser, even after numerous generations in the country). Source: Am Canadian who moved to Europe 2 years ago and am constantly shocked by how racists Europeans are. I think part of…

You're comparing vastly different immigration systems, Canada takes in highly educated immigrants and your country has always been growing by immigration. Many European countries have their own share of unprivileged ethnic minorities or quite simply defranchised parts of the country where the big arrival of migrants economically threatens their livelihood, that's not racist.

> Whereas in Europe it seems that you are constantly defined by your ancestry, even after multiple generations.

Yeah, too many different languages, too many cultures and ages of history where Europeans ruled over each other precisely because of the ancestry and the power that went along with it. That is highly engraved in collective mind of most European countries.

Re: French election: Macron defeats Le Pen

#113

Post by easilyBored » Sun, May 07, 2017, 7:37 PM UTC

cm2187 wrote: post #107

easilyBored wrote: post #15

Had France "fallen," EU would have been toast. Together with Germany they are the main pillars of EU. As bad as EU is, eventually they will get along just fine...or a least just as United States of America do.

> Had France "fallen," EU would have been toast. Actually it wouldn't have been. What most people will discover (though I think most French nationals are well aware), is that the president has very little power in France unless he also controls the parliament. Which Le Pen was guaranteed not to achieve. And which will still be a long shot for Macron. Had Le Pen been elected, she would have been reduced pretty much to…

The idea is not just her election...it's the wave. If people like her ideas, they might give her the parliament that mirrors her ideas.

Re: French election: Macron defeats Le Pen

#114

Post by orf » Sun, May 07, 2017, 7:37 PM UTC

pottersbasilisk wrote: post #96

orf wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't agree with the downvotes you are receiving, you make some good overall points (but also some bad ones). Nothing is dead until it is entirely dead, and the EU idea still runs strong in people. Things need to change, as Brexit and the recent problems faced by the union have shown. Now it's down to the time to reform. I don't think Macron is choosing the status quo though, hes as much as a political outsider as…

Political outsider doesnt mean anti-establishment. Trump is clearly anti-establishment. Macron was pro-eu.

Trump is not anti-establishment at all.

Re: French election: Macron defeats Le Pen

#115

Post by petre » Sun, May 07, 2017, 7:38 PM UTC

d215 wrote: post #77

sparkling wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What the EU is trying to do has been done in the past and it has failed. The EU as it is right now is becoming the next Sovient Union. A undemocratic, centralised, bureaucratic superstate that strips the people from their sovereignty, independence, cultural and ethnic traditions. Further, you seem to assume that without the EU, trade between countries would somehow radically decrease, i don't see that happening. The…

> What the EU is trying to do has been done in the past and it has failed. First, If we would never try what in the past has failed then we would be really in a very stagnant state. Second, the EU has not failed, the EU is still the main reason for the prosperity most of its members have gained and still continue to gain after WWII. That it has had some backlashes recently does not mean at all that it has failed. > T…

Austria Hungary has failed. The Soviet Union has failed even though everybody in it was speaking Russian, which is not the case with the EU. The EU will fail if it continues like this, with massive centralization of power. The difference is that unlike Austria Hungary and the USSR, it does not have a standing army to back its power and member states will leave when economic crisis hits and it's no longer in their best interests to stay.

Re: French election: Macron defeats Le Pen

#116

Post by masklinn » Sun, May 07, 2017, 7:39 PM UTC

sbose78 wrote: post #26

S4M wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

34% is way too much for a fascist like Le Pen.

Her vote percentage has hardly gone up since the first round.

Say what? She went from 21% to 34, that's a 60% increase.

Re: French election: Macron defeats Le Pen

#117

Post by tobltobs » Sun, May 07, 2017, 7:40 PM UTC

AlexeyBrin wrote: post #58

tobltobs wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Switzerland they speak four different languages and that doesn't seem to be a problem.

You should try to live for a few years in different European countries like Hungary, Romania and Germany. Most importantly see how each of these people see each other and their neighbours. I bet that people in Switzerland have more in common (economically and culturally) than people from Bulgaria and France have for example.

I guess the difference would be similar to NYC vs. Kentucky or Alabama vs. California. Those differences (economically and culturally) don't seem to be a too big problem for the US.

To come back to the example of Switzerland, the economically and culturally differences between a mountain farmer and a Banker in Geneva shouldn't be underrated also.

Re: French election: Macron defeats Le Pen

#118

Post by dang » Sun, May 07, 2017, 7:40 PM UTC

deanCommie wrote: post #65

wsc981 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a European I see this as a huge concern. Choosing Macron means keeping the status quo, which means continued mass immigration, continued bad economic policy, etc... in Europe. I am sure the bankers will be glad as will the European Commission and the multinationals, but the common people will become disillusioned in a few years as more and more terrorist attacks will happen into Europe and the problems with the ec…

Have you and your European friends tried actually addressing some of the racist beliefs you casually take for granted which lead you to discriminate against immigrants when it comes to integration into society? (They are always considered lesser, even after numerous generations in the country). Source: Am Canadian who moved to Europe 2 years ago and am constantly shocked by how racists Europeans are. I think part of…

Let's not get nationalist the other way either.

Some signs that a comment is probably bad by HN's standard: (1) general claims on provocative matters; (2) pejorative 'you'; (3) using the word 'actually' about something difficult; (4) promotion of one identity over another. The more such markers in a comment, the more troll effects it has, even if trolling isn't the intent. (Most of the time, it isn't.)

Some things that counteract these effects: nuance; empathy; personal experience.

Re: French election: Macron defeats Le Pen

#119

Post by Atropos » Sun, May 07, 2017, 7:43 PM UTC

sparkling wrote: post #103

Atropos wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you please refresh my memory: Which of the Soviet Union states was allowed to hold a referendum on whether it should leave?

All of them, as specified in article 26 in the Treaty on the Creation of the Sovient Union.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prague_Spring

Re: French election: Macron defeats Le Pen

#120

Post by Faaak » Sun, May 07, 2017, 7:44 PM UTC

wsc981 wrote: post #19

orf wrote: post #2

As a European this comes as a huge relief, especially given the poorly-timed email leak (with Russian names in the metadata). Here's to hoping that Europe can continue working together and begin to reform itself, and not tear itself apart like some of our American 'allies' on the (alt-)right would like. Lots of challenges ahead, but we wouldn't want it to be too easy now would we?

As a European I see this as a huge concern. Choosing Macron means keeping the status quo, which means continued mass immigration, continued bad economic policy, etc... in Europe. I am sure the bankers will be glad as will the European Commission and the multinationals, but the common people will become disillusioned in a few years as more and more terrorist attacks will happen into Europe and the problems with the ec…

I live in France near the Swiss-France border and all this talk about how more borders will reduce terrorism and immigration is completely bullshit.

I cross every day the border. Twice a week, I cross another border which is meant to be closed from 19h to 6h (many small borders near the FR-CH do that). There is a simply locked barrier. Nothing more. This has been here for 25+ years. Of course, I've crossed "illegally" this border by bike plenty of times (its faster) and it has been very very easy (I won't even talk about all the woods around the border that haven't got a single fence). A terrorist wanting to cross a border would be very stupid to get caught.

So all this talk about how getting out of the EU is complete bullshit to me.