French election: Macron defeats Le Pen • Hacker News Board

Re: French election: Macron defeats Le Pen

#101

Post by irtazasafi » Sun, May 07, 2017, 7:22 PM UTC

wsc981 wrote: post #19

orf wrote: post #2

As a European this comes as a huge relief, especially given the poorly-timed email leak (with Russian names in the metadata). Here's to hoping that Europe can continue working together and begin to reform itself, and not tear itself apart like some of our American 'allies' on the (alt-)right would like. Lots of challenges ahead, but we wouldn't want it to be too easy now would we?

As a European I see this as a huge concern. Choosing Macron means keeping the status quo, which means continued mass immigration, continued bad economic policy, etc... in Europe. I am sure the bankers will be glad as will the European Commission and the multinationals, but the common people will become disillusioned in a few years as more and more terrorist attacks will happen into Europe and the problems with the ec…

'I intend to leave for Asia'. Get a grip you fool, you're an immigrant yourself and you're hating on immigrants who migrate for the same reasons as you?

Re: French election: Macron defeats Le Pen

#102

Post by [deleted] » Sun, May 07, 2017, 7:25 PM UTC

[deleted]

Re: French election: Macron defeats Le Pen

#103

Post by sparkling » Sun, May 07, 2017, 7:25 PM UTC

Atropos wrote: post #99

sparkling wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What the EU is trying to do has been done in the past and it has failed. The EU as it is right now is becoming the next Sovient Union. A undemocratic, centralised, bureaucratic superstate that strips the people from their sovereignty, independence, cultural and ethnic traditions. Further, you seem to assume that without the EU, trade between countries would somehow radically decrease, i don't see that happening. The…

Could you please refresh my memory: Which of the Soviet Union states was allowed to hold a referendum on whether it should leave?

All of them, as specified in article 26 in the Treaty on the Creation of the Sovient Union.

Re: French election: Macron defeats Le Pen

#104

Post by tradersam » Sun, May 07, 2017, 7:26 PM UTC

pottersbasilisk wrote: post #96

orf wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't agree with the downvotes you are receiving, you make some good overall points (but also some bad ones). Nothing is dead until it is entirely dead, and the EU idea still runs strong in people. Things need to change, as Brexit and the recent problems faced by the union have shown. Now it's down to the time to reform. I don't think Macron is choosing the status quo though, hes as much as a political outsider as…

Political outsider doesnt mean anti-establishment. Trump is clearly anti-establishment. Macron was pro-eu.

I think it has been proven Trump isn't actually anti-establishment, that was just a lie he used during the campaign.

Re: French election: Macron defeats Le Pen

#105

Post by ue_ » Sun, May 07, 2017, 7:30 PM UTC

agumonkey wrote: post #4

I can't deny it uplifted my mood quite a bit. The nationalist wave didn't flip France head enough, which is always good. It's just a start, a new hope.

The neo-liberal wave also didn't flip France, it was always there.

Re: French election: Macron defeats Le Pen

#106

Post by lindbergh » Sun, May 07, 2017, 7:31 PM UTC

HN will likely rejoice. Macron is putting a lot of faith in startups to jumpstart back the french economy. I think it's wise: France has great schools to train great engineers, but there's still this stigma that it's almost impossible to have your own tech company in France unless you're ready to deal with massive paperwork. I have no idea how true it is, but Macron clearly wants to change this mentality.

It also goes to another level. Traditionally (since the 50s), engineering in France has largely been lead by large, ambitious and state funded projects and organizations. Think for instance Concorde, TGV, EDF, INRIA, etc. I have always liked this gaullist mentality: it has benefited the majority of the population and I tend to believe it has been helpful in making France a major post WW2 superpower.

But lately it may not have worked so well: for instance, many regional airports have been built at high cost, and yet many of them are almost empty. Perhaps then, resource allocation is the problem. In this regard, Macron is influenced by the american model where eg. Bell Labs, Elon Musk, Silicon Valley behemoths, etc. decide by themselves what shall be built and the state has little to no regard in the orientations of these organizations.

We'll see. I'm glad Macron has won and hope his plan works out.

Re: French election: Macron defeats Le Pen

#107

Post by cm2187 » Sun, May 07, 2017, 7:32 PM UTC

easilyBored wrote: post #15

Had France "fallen," EU would have been toast. Together with Germany they are the main pillars of EU. As bad as EU is, eventually they will get along just fine...or a least just as United States of America do.

> Had France "fallen," EU would have been toast.

Actually it wouldn't have been. What most people will discover (though I think most French nationals are well aware), is that the president has very little power in France unless he also controls the parliament. Which Le Pen was guaranteed not to achieve. And which will still be a long shot for Macron. Had Le Pen been elected, she would have been reduced pretty much to the role of a queen of England. With nuclear firepower but very little means to create trouble in the EU.

Re: French election: Macron defeats Le Pen

#108

Post by ue_ » Sun, May 07, 2017, 7:32 PM UTC

AckSyn wrote: post #93

Some people want their country to continue to be a shithole with rampant unchecked illegals and migrants thumbing their noses at the law. All for what? Some false utopian ideal of "but muh multiculturalism"

This is quite an uncharitable view of those who are against restricting immigration as much as Le Pen would have wanted to. Although I am no proponent of neo-liberalism, I am a proponent of multiculturalism. And that doesn't necessarily carry with it "migrants thumbing their noses at the law" and "unchecked" illegal immigrants (if we are going to put legality over morality here).

Re: French election: Macron defeats Le Pen

#109

Post by bkjelden » Sun, May 07, 2017, 7:33 PM UTC

It seems that Trump and Brexit may have been the high water mark for the wave of nationalism sweeping the west. 2017 has seen nationalist candidates fade and underperform their polls across the EU. Trump has made less actual policy progress towards his nationalist goals than perhaps many feared/expected.

Things were quite scary a few months ago. There are still things to be concerned about going forward, but politics ebbs and flows, and for now perhaps the flood waters are receding.

Re: French election: Macron defeats Le Pen

#110

Post by CalChris » Sun, May 07, 2017, 7:35 PM UTC

pinaceae wrote: post #74

The most successful peace project on European soil of the last 1000 years can continue. Naysayers of the EU need to learn history. It is worth every penny, every inch of inconvenience. TWO fucking world wars were started by Europe, by nations that formed the Coal/Steel Union after 45 and now enjoy the longest, uninterrupted period of peace since, like, EVER. The EU's economy is the largest in the world. You don't fuc…

> The EU's economy is the largest in the world

Not quite, but it's big. The EU is $17T. The US is $18.5T. But I agree that you shouldn't fuck with that especially for the reasons that Le Pen and the Brexiters had.