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Thousands of Veterans Want to Learn to Code But Can’t

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Re: Thousands of Veterans Want to Learn to Code But Can’t

#31

Post by drawnwren »

cbhl wrote: post #9
polpo wrote: post #3

Whether you believe code schools are good or bad (I lean somewhat towards good), I wonder if we have not fully learned the lesson from the rash several years ago of fly-by-night for-profit colleges preying on vets and providing substandard education and inflated job promises, all on the GI Bill's dime. I worry that if the GI Bill was extended to code schools, we'd see the exact same thing happen again.

I wonder whether it would be better to provide employers in tech money to train directly, on the condition that X% of them retain full-time employment of at least $XXX,000 for five years following "graduation". The idea is to align incentives -- the employers get to try vets, and if they succeed, everyone gets more money.

Code schools are not very conducive to retention, especially not on a 5 year scale. Keep in mind most boot camp grads are going to front end jobs at mid-early stage startups.

Re: Thousands of Veterans Want to Learn to Code But Can’t

#32

Post by E6300 »

sidlls wrote: post #23
E6300 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're not going to learn much CS from a code school.

Many, if not most, software jobs require very little CS knowledge. At such jobs the ability to compare numbers and read a chart (a matrix of algorithms and data structures vs. time vs. space complexity) will cover almost every possible use case. "Mid-level development as a skilled trade" jobs, for example.

Agreed, but those skills can be picked up by anyone with the time to attend classes, for free.

Re: Thousands of Veterans Want to Learn to Code But Can’t

#33

Post by Chaebixi »

cbhl wrote: post #11
rezashirazian wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think established and accredited universities should set up two year coding programs that can teach the trade as opposed to pop up overpriced bootcamps that usually operate without much accountability. Then the GI Bill can pick up the tab for such programs.

But those programs wouldn't meet the accreditation requirements, which usually require minimum numbers of teaching hours. Plus, established universities don't teach the trade, they teach you how to think about learning the trade. You actually learn the trade in co-ops and internships and by doing it.

> Plus, established universities don't teach the trade, they teach you how to think about learning the trade.

A university wouldn't run a program like a code school. They're a better fit for a tech school or community college (which can be public, regionally accredited, and part of a larger state higher education system).

Re: Thousands of Veterans Want to Learn to Code But Can’t

#34

Post by rkho »

40acres wrote: post #21

I don't see the need for Code Schools. Folks can learn almost anything using the resources of the internet. Provide the vets with books on coding for a specialized curriculum for fee and give them some specialized job prep. Many places would love to hire Vets.

I would contend that books don't give you the opportunity of practicing the intricacies of interacting with your peers.

Re: Thousands of Veterans Want to Learn to Code But Can’t

#35

Post by brightball »

killjoywashere wrote: post #16
polpo wrote: post #3

Whether you believe code schools are good or bad (I lean somewhat towards good), I wonder if we have not fully learned the lesson from the rash several years ago of fly-by-night for-profit colleges preying on vets and providing substandard education and inflated job promises, all on the GI Bill's dime. I worry that if the GI Bill was extended to code schools, we'd see the exact same thing happen again.

When I was general medical officer in the Navy, among other clinic duties, I did exit physicals for sailors, sometimes 20 a week. I would always try to talk to them about their plans for the future. Some seemed to be squared away. But I can't tell you how many times someone told me their plan was to take online classes from some sketchy school I'd never heard of. I'd google it with them, it would be some online unive…

There's an organization in my area that I've heard a lot about geared toward addressing this exact problem.

http://upstatewarriorsolution.org/

Re: Thousands of Veterans Want to Learn to Code But Can’t

#36

Post by dmix »

aaronchall wrote: post #27
killjoywashere wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I was general medical officer in the Navy, among other clinic duties, I did exit physicals for sailors, sometimes 20 a week. I would always try to talk to them about their plans for the future. Some seemed to be squared away. But I can't tell you how many times someone told me their plan was to take online classes from some sketchy school I'd never heard of. I'd google it with them, it would be some online unive…

I agree on the brick-and-mortar schools suggestion. I wrote this in favor of them: https://academia.stackexchange.com/q/14833/9518 > Students overwhelmingly report retaining and applying less from online courses versus face-to-face courses. > However, this may be due to a difference in factors other than distance learning. However, I find your insult to Trump voters gratuitous and unnecessary.

> However, I find your insult to Trump voters gratuitous and unnecessary.

I originally upvoted the OP's comment as I somehow missed this aside at the end and unvoted. HN is really not the place for that stuff...

Re: Thousands of Veterans Want to Learn to Code But Can’t

#37

Post by elihu »

rkho wrote: post #34
40acres wrote: post #21

I don't see the need for Code Schools. Folks can learn almost anything using the resources of the internet. Provide the vets with books on coding for a specialized curriculum for fee and give them some specialized job prep. Many places would love to hire Vets.

I would contend that books don't give you the opportunity of practicing the intricacies of interacting with your peers.

Books also don't provide credentials. Having knowledge about a topic isn't usually sufficient to get to the interview stage.

Re: Thousands of Veterans Want to Learn to Code But Can’t

#38

Post by rebase »

jcoffland wrote: post #10

All the resources to learn coding are freely available. Anyone who tells you otherwise is trying to make a buck.

Quite frankly, if a person has any sort of formal education in their background such as college or even taking coding classes in high school, they are then entirely unqualified to offer such an opinion.

It may be easy to learn new languages online due to having learned the foundations, but unless you can say you learned all the foundations online, this type of comment isnt helpful. As many others have mentioned learning is a science and it takes a lot of work to structure learning in a digestible manner.

Re: Thousands of Veterans Want to Learn to Code But Can’t

#39

Post by cinquemb »

jcoffland wrote: post #10

All the resources to learn coding are freely available. Anyone who tells you otherwise is trying to make a buck.

Now that access is so prevalent and available to most (not even just resources related to programming/coding/whatever), it seems like it tends to be discounted compared when access was the issue and worrying about anything else outside of that could be considered to be fanciful.

Re: Thousands of Veterans Want to Learn to Code But Can’t

#40

Post by rebase »

40acres wrote: post #21

I don't see the need for Code Schools. Folks can learn almost anything using the resources of the internet. Provide the vets with books on coding for a specialized curriculum for fee and give them some specialized job prep. Many places would love to hire Vets.

Quite frankly, if a person has any sort of formal education in their background such as college or even taking coding classes in high school, they are then entirely unqualified to offer such an opinion. It may be easy to learn new languages online due to having learned the foundations, but unless you can say you learned all the foundations online, this type of comment isnt helpful. As many others have mentioned learning is a science and it takes a lot of work to structure learning in a digestible manner.
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