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Thousands of Veterans Want to Learn to Code But Can’t

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Re: Thousands of Veterans Want to Learn to Code But Can’t

#11

Post by cbhl »

rezashirazian wrote: post #6
polpo wrote: post #3

Whether you believe code schools are good or bad (I lean somewhat towards good), I wonder if we have not fully learned the lesson from the rash several years ago of fly-by-night for-profit colleges preying on vets and providing substandard education and inflated job promises, all on the GI Bill's dime. I worry that if the GI Bill was extended to code schools, we'd see the exact same thing happen again.

I think established and accredited universities should set up two year coding programs that can teach the trade as opposed to pop up overpriced bootcamps that usually operate without much accountability. Then the GI Bill can pick up the tab for such programs.

But those programs wouldn't meet the accreditation requirements, which usually require minimum numbers of teaching hours.

Plus, established universities don't teach the trade, they teach you how to think about learning the trade. You actually learn the trade in co-ops and internships and by doing it.

Re: Thousands of Veterans Want to Learn to Code But Can’t

#12

Post by E6300 »

xatan_dank wrote: post #5
ar15saveslives wrote: post #2

> I could not use my GI Bill to go to code school. That was the number one roadblock Nobody needs a "code school" to learn how to write code.

True, but what does "writing code" mean? If it means learning some basic JavaScript syntax and writing a small text adventure, that isn't hard at all. Learning the mathematical fundamentals of CS on the other hand is a great deal harder, and getting up to speed with what technologies are considered standard is extremely difficult.

You're not going to learn much CS from a code school.

Re: Thousands of Veterans Want to Learn to Code But Can’t

#13

Post by muninn_ »

ar15saveslives wrote: post #2

> I could not use my GI Bill to go to code school. That was the number one roadblock Nobody needs a "code school" to learn how to write code.

Right, but as the article mentioned the veteran needed an accelerated timeline because of family obligations and couldn't afford the time not working to attend a traditional 4 year university.

Re: Thousands of Veterans Want to Learn to Code But Can’t

#14

Post by nommm-nommm »

lsjdfkljdfwkwdf wrote: post #4

expecting the government to take care of you? where did your personal responsibility go?

What's with these shit posts lately? This is specifically talking about using the "GI bill," (actual name is The Servicemen's Readjustment Act of 1944) which is certain benefits provided in exchange​ for active duty military service. Education is just one of those benefits, access to special loans is another. It's one of the reasons why people sign up for military service in the first place. It's something that is earned, not given.

The argument presented here is you are allowed to use your GI Bill to learn to be a HVAC technician so why shouldn't you be able to use it to learn to be a software engineer? Incidentally, this article is pretty pointless anyways because you actually can learn to be a software engineer with your GI Bill you just have to go to an accredited traditional college or university. They even mention there are "boot camps" that are becoming accredited. Even so, I question how much you can actually learn in less than six months, certainly not enough for a real career in software in my opinion, I base that on my own journey learning and my decade plus experience in industry. I think the point of this article is something like "coding is the new blue collar" or something else irrelevant.

Re: Thousands of Veterans Want to Learn to Code But Can’t

#15

Post by jlarocco »

"Coding schools" are a sham, and I'm glad they're not covered by the GI Bill.

There's nothing stopping these veterans from going to a regular university, college, or community college and getting a real degree in computer science, software engineering, or a related field.

Re: Thousands of Veterans Want to Learn to Code But Can’t

#16

Post by killjoywashere »

polpo wrote: post #3

Whether you believe code schools are good or bad (I lean somewhat towards good), I wonder if we have not fully learned the lesson from the rash several years ago of fly-by-night for-profit colleges preying on vets and providing substandard education and inflated job promises, all on the GI Bill's dime. I worry that if the GI Bill was extended to code schools, we'd see the exact same thing happen again.

When I was general medical officer in the Navy, among other clinic duties, I did exit physicals for sailors, sometimes 20 a week. I would always try to talk to them about their plans for the future. Some seemed to be squared away. But I can't tell you how many times someone told me their plan was to take online classes from some sketchy school I'd never heard of. I'd google it with them, it would be some online university. Then I'd urge them about brick-and-mortar schools.

What most of society doesn't seem to understand is that returning veterans are quite anxious about getting out and this makes them very vulnerable. They are like the Trump voters willing to throw their lot in with whomever tells them "it will be okay", regardless of how unscrupulous and incompetent those promise-makers are.

Re: Thousands of Veterans Want to Learn to Code But Can’t

#17

Post by muninn_ »

lsjdfkljdfwkwdf wrote: post #4

expecting the government to take care of you? where did your personal responsibility go?

Well even if you wanted to say that, part of the compensation package of joining the military is having school paid for afterward. So think of it as more of a contract, because it is.

Re: Thousands of Veterans Want to Learn to Code But Can’t

#18

Post by killjoywashere »

jcoffland wrote: post #10

All the resources to learn coding are freely available. Anyone who tells you otherwise is trying to make a buck.

But there is a vast difference between being alone in a room, and being in a room full of people who are all trying to learn the same thing.

Re: Thousands of Veterans Want to Learn to Code But Can’t

#19

Post by killjoywashere »

jlarocco wrote: post #15

"Coding schools" are a sham, and I'm glad they're not covered by the GI Bill. There's nothing stopping these veterans from going to a regular university, college, or community college and getting a real degree in computer science, software engineering, or a related field.

> There's nothing stopping these veterans

fear, uncertainty, and doubt. And some self-loathing.

Re: Thousands of Veterans Want to Learn to Code But Can’t

#20

Post by muninn_ »

jlarocco wrote: post #15

"Coding schools" are a sham, and I'm glad they're not covered by the GI Bill. There's nothing stopping these veterans from going to a regular university, college, or community college and getting a real degree in computer science, software engineering, or a related field.

It depends. I was fortunate to have no obligations, so I left and went to a 4 year school. Many veterans leave and have obligations that may prevent them from being able to handle the reduced amount of income. I don't have any "sympathy" for this, but there are things that prevent many veterans from attending college based on life choices.

Also, let me tell you. When I started engineering school I nearly failed out. 5 years of 0 school and it was very difficult to go back to school. I eventually graduated and landed a great job, but there aren't a lot of 4.0 high school valedictorians going to the Army. My point here is that it's complicated.

I do agree though that it's good that these coding schools are not covered. But! The GI Bill IIRC does provide support for trade schools. So if you were able to create a coding trade school (which is what most devs are doing in their daily work) you could be able to train veterans.

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