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Is the GPL Really Declining?

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121–130 of 242 posts

Re: Is the GPL Really Declining?

#121
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So I share your sentiment. I still open Photoshop/Lightroom on my Windows laptop when I need them (although lately I've been trying to use DarkTable and RawTherapee for some projects) but yes, Gimp is far from being a high end tool. Illustrator still kills Inkscape (I worked with a hardcore OSS guy who said it's just a matter of training, what you're use to and what you start with. I could tell he'd never done any re…

> So I share your sentiment. I still open > > Photoshop/Lightroom on my Windows laptop when I need them (although lately I've been trying to use DarkTable and RawTherapee for some projects) but yes, Gimp is far from being a high end tool. Illustrator still kills Inkscape (I worked with a hardcore OSS guy who said it's just a matter of training, what you're use to and what you start with. I could tell he'd never done…

> Well, yes, most HN commenters seem to be very money-centered. After all, it's a site about starting new crappy companies, pushing shitty, useless products noone needs.

Whoa.

Re: Is the GPL Really Declining?

#122

The last time I went through my employer's process for releasing an open source project, the attorney assigned to our case emailed to ask if we really wanted to choose the GPL, as we'd stated on the application form, because getting approval for MIT or Apache was going to be quicker. We advised that yes, we did want the GPL, and indeed we didn't run into any further problems. Keeping up the good fight in the midst of…

In my experience the barrier is always the lawyers.

Anecdotally, part of the reason why is the lawyers I've talked to don't feel like FSF have offered enough clarification regarding legal concerns, and the hostility of the community.

When the community will burn you to the ground for inadvertently shipping a binary without code, even after you've apologized and shipped the code, why would legal want to bother with them?

There's been half a dozen knee-jerk $XYZ Corp is in gross violation of the GPL! headlines here, only for the conversation to go "No, they're not. Go away."

Look at the SystemD thing and countless other situations. The mantra is "open and welcome and use our stuff!" Then they go all Walter if you slip a toe over the line.

Neckbeards need to get that they're responsible for the apprehension. It's another form of tribalism. You either need to be perfect in how you fit in, never err, or we'll figuratively tear you a new one.

Re: Is the GPL Really Declining?

#123
post #114
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The *BSDs show clearly what would have happened, most hardware vendors that ship some BSD variant on their hardware don't contribute anything back.

That is simply not true. For instance iXsystems contributes back to FreeBSD snd also sponsors the foundation. On the other hand a lot of WiFi router vendors violate the GPL by not releasing the code and contribute nothing back to Linux.

For every iXsystems (who are excellent Free Software citizens) you have many NetApp, EMC and Isilons, who use the FreeBSD code to build profitable products on and give nothing in return.

NetApp is a very good example, as they contribute NFS code back to Linux but not FreeBSD.

Why do you think that might be ?

Re: Is the GPL Really Declining?

#124
post #92
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm sure that if Linux wasn't GPL, you'd have 'vendors' selling 'HP Linux' and 'Corp Linux' to their locked in customers in no time at all. The only reason Linux grew up to this point is that the vendors are forced to contribute back and cooperate (up to a point). I don't know. For such a complex project like linux you can't do all by yourself and you most likely want all the improvements and extensions done by oth…

The *BSDs show clearly what would have happened, most hardware vendors that ship some BSD variant on their hardware don't contribute anything back.

Most of the people who are anti-GPL are either naive or want to profit off of someone else's code without contributing anything back.

For me, GPL doesn't go nearly far enough, and I licence everything I write under AGPL.

Re: Is the GPL Really Declining?

#125
post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is simply not true. For instance iXsystems contributes back to FreeBSD snd also sponsors the foundation. On the other hand a lot of WiFi router vendors violate the GPL by not releasing the code and contribute nothing back to Linux.

most != all And one counter-example isn't enough refutation. not saying i believe either of you. just saying, language matters.

NetApp Juniper Sony Apple Panassas.... These all have commits to FreeBSD. When you use it, you do tend to collaborate with upstream a bit.

Re: Is the GPL Really Declining?

#126
Just idly...

> Deciding which is dominant may well be a matter for your ideological biases rather than an objective absolute.

No, it's really not. That's what objective means; that you count the numbers and acknowledge that one number if bigger than another, by a significant margin.

> If I can pick my own metric, I can prove anything!

Sure, but there are some pretty solid metrics that no one is going to argue you're 'fudging the numbers to suit your bias on'. For example:

    - Total number of projects with a given license.
    - Total number of dependencies on projects with a given license.
    - Total number of new projects with a given license per year/month, normalized.
    - Total number of new dependencies on a given license per year/month, normalized.
What is this rubbish about deciding which license you like the most because you think it has some kind of pretty ethical features, or calling it 'copy left' vs 'reciprocal behaviour'.

You're just muddying the waters and making people who support GPL look stupid.

Statistics can be jimmied to show a specific tale, its true... but you know what?

A bunch of graphs, a raw data set I can check myself and a repo with the software that generated the graphs; I'll believe what I see in that any day over some arbitrary talk about how you can't really ever believe anything because heck, everyone has a bias.

Hand waving is a lot easier than actually digging up data and checking the numbers; but it's largely meaningless he-said-she-said-they-said.

A little while ago I met some folk who were absolutely convinced that hg was winning the hearts and minds of people around the world (over git). They were and are wrong. So is this post. ...yet people continue to argue the point.

I think it's easy to end up trapped in a bubble where all you see is people who agree with you, and you can't see what's really going on.

Everyone now and then you actually do need to dig through some hard data yourself and reevaluate your own assumptions I think...

Re: Is the GPL Really Declining?

#127
I'm a bit surprised "dual licensing" hasn't come up at all in this discussion. To me that is the most logical next-step from the GPL. (ex: The Qt/JUCE people are using it to great effect)

- If you want to work on expanding on what I started and then sharing it with everyone, then that's great!

- If you want to make money with my work - then lets get in touch and work out some compensation. Seems only fair.. no?

It's a little fuzzy because you can have opensource projects that make money, but it fits the general spirit of things.

Though I'm not sure how it would work if for instance someone sends you a merge request.... do they have to also send something signing over the rights to their work? Is there a better license that does this automatically?

(does anyone know how Qt handles that for example?)

Re: Is the GPL Really Declining?

#128

I think there's two split types of developers. When I was younger, mostly hanging around on IRC servers and forums, coding just my own cool projects, I strongly believed in the GPL. All of my projects had it, and I wouldn't even dream of allowing someone to use my code without making their entire project open too. That's the first type I think. The second type is the more HN-style professional programmer. Now as I've…

I tend to agree, up to a point, however I still use the GPL because it at least gives me a leg to stand on for people actually ripping your code and selling it as is... (What I call the packagers) I'm sure that if Linux wasn't GPL, you'd have 'vendors' selling 'HP Linux' and 'Corp Linux' to their locked in customers in no time at all. The only reason Linux grew up to this point is that the vendors are forced to contr…

Like safari and chrome for WebKit

Re: Is the GPL Really Declining?

#129
post #127

I'm a bit surprised "dual licensing" hasn't come up at all in this discussion. To me that is the most logical next-step from the GPL. (ex: The Qt/JUCE people are using it to great effect) - If you want to work on expanding on what I started and then sharing it with everyone, then that's great! - If you want to make money with my work - then lets get in touch and work out some compensation. Seems only fair.. no? It's…

I'm not 100% sure but I think the GPL prevents itself from being used in a dual license scenario on purpose.

Re: Is the GPL Really Declining?

#130
How do investors view a startup that only builds GPL licensed software. Eg- Let's say Gitlab used only GPL, would it be a major red flag to investors? What about businesses, would they be willing to be buy GPL licensed software?

Any examples of startups that only build GPL licensed software?

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