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Louisiana prosecutors are using fake subpoenas to pressure witnesses to talk

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Re: Louisiana prosecutors are using fake subpoenas to pressure witnesses to talk

#21

Post by tobltobs »

Pyxl101 wrote: post #18
Doxin wrote: post #13

> The purpose and function of calling the police is generally to bring lawful force to bear against someone who has committed a crime. Only in america. > Their job is not to resolve domestic disputes Only in america. > Any time you call the cops on somebody, it should be done with the expectation that they may be arrested and taken to jail Only in america. Just because the American police force is awful and only real…

The largest Dutch cities are at best medium-sized in total population and density compared to American cities, though, and a lot richer in wealth per capita. For example, using 2015 numbers, Amsterdam with 848k people (4.3k per sq mi) wouldn't place on the top 10 list of largest or densest American cities. San Jose, California at #10 has over a million people (5.3k per sq mi). New York City (#1) has 8.5 million peopl…

Or maybe the difference is just that money goes into education instead of militarization of the police.

Re: Louisiana prosecutors are using fake subpoenas to pressure witnesses to talk

#22

Post by narag »

Pyxl101 wrote: post #7
tcj_phx wrote: post #3

Prosecutors have a tough job. Prosecuting people who've hurt other people is the easy part of their job. Prosecuting people who haven't hurt anyone but themselves (self-medication w/ the street pharmacy), or who've become dependent on alcohol just to feel 'normal' [1]... Maybe prosecutors have to have a cruel streak to stick with the job after the novelty wears off. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14085230 S…

> The police couldn't do anything but take this woman downtown. Her daughter protested, "THIS IS NOT WHY WE CALLED YOU", but the officers were like, "whatevers". If all you've got is a hammer, everything is a nail. Sounds like her daughter might have had incorrect expectations for what it entails to call the police, though, unfortunately. The purpose and function of calling the police is generally to bring lawful for…

As others have said, it's not the same outside the USA. There's an entertaining TV show in Spain that depicts all kind of police situations, from domestic disputes to assaulting a drug capo's stronghold.

I can also attest by direct experience that the cool attitude they show on camera is the same one they have when nobody's recording.

In another show, we see a Spanish policeman as an observer in Miami and making interesting comments on the differences, including positive ones, compared to Spain.

Re: Louisiana prosecutors are using fake subpoenas to pressure witnesses to talk

#23

Post by gonzo41 »

sheraz wrote: post #17

Sounds like this is an opportunity for a SVaaS (Subpoena Verification as a Service). (I'm joking -- right up until the point where I am not) I'm not even sure how one would verify that a subpoena is valid. I suppose the same goes for verifying badge numbers for police, fire marshalls, city inspectors, etc.

Thats not the issue, Lawyers and the like are extremely resistant to digitization. If you said we'll have a live database of all active subpoenas that anyone could read the types of fights you'd have with the legal profession would astound you.

Everything runs on written signed letters and the post.

Interesting fact, Barristers used to get paid by the inch of paper in their brief, so when you read old law and its verbose as fk. you just know someone was on the clock running up the hours.

Re: Louisiana prosecutors are using fake subpoenas to pressure witnesses to talk

#24

Post by minikites »

Pyxl101 wrote: post #7
tcj_phx wrote: post #3

Prosecutors have a tough job. Prosecuting people who've hurt other people is the easy part of their job. Prosecuting people who haven't hurt anyone but themselves (self-medication w/ the street pharmacy), or who've become dependent on alcohol just to feel 'normal' [1]... Maybe prosecutors have to have a cruel streak to stick with the job after the novelty wears off. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14085230 S…

> The police couldn't do anything but take this woman downtown. Her daughter protested, "THIS IS NOT WHY WE CALLED YOU", but the officers were like, "whatevers". If all you've got is a hammer, everything is a nail. Sounds like her daughter might have had incorrect expectations for what it entails to call the police, though, unfortunately. The purpose and function of calling the police is generally to bring lawful for…

>In my mind, actual thefts (that deprive people of property and rights) are a substantially higher priority than resolving social disputes.

You do know that "domestic dispute" isn't just an argument and is usually a euphemism for assault/battery, right?

Re: Louisiana prosecutors are using fake subpoenas to pressure witnesses to talk

#26

Post by duncan_bayne »

Doxin wrote: post #13

> The purpose and function of calling the police is generally to bring lawful force to bear against someone who has committed a crime. Only in america. > Their job is not to resolve domestic disputes Only in america. > Any time you call the cops on somebody, it should be done with the expectation that they may be arrested and taken to jail Only in america. Just because the American police force is awful and only real…

"Only in America" is hyperbole. I'd buy "more frequently" but, realistically, the advice is still sound in any part of the world: don't call the cops if you don't want someone to get arrested.

For those down voting, here are the stats from Australia, courtesy Wikipedia:

"Data from the Australian Bureau of Statistics (ABS) shows that during the 2009/10 year police took action against 375,259 people, up by 4.8 percent from 2008/09 figures."

So, that's 375k "actions". Even if you assume that a lot of those won't end in arrest, that's still a lot of arresting.

Re: Louisiana prosecutors are using fake subpoenas to pressure witnesses to talk

#27

Post by MereInterest »

Pyxl101 wrote: post #7
tcj_phx wrote: post #3

Prosecutors have a tough job. Prosecuting people who've hurt other people is the easy part of their job. Prosecuting people who haven't hurt anyone but themselves (self-medication w/ the street pharmacy), or who've become dependent on alcohol just to feel 'normal' [1]... Maybe prosecutors have to have a cruel streak to stick with the job after the novelty wears off. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14085230 S…

> The police couldn't do anything but take this woman downtown. Her daughter protested, "THIS IS NOT WHY WE CALLED YOU", but the officers were like, "whatevers". If all you've got is a hammer, everything is a nail. Sounds like her daughter might have had incorrect expectations for what it entails to call the police, though, unfortunately. The purpose and function of calling the police is generally to bring lawful for…

I'd recommend taking a few minutes to read the Peelian Principles [1]. What you state is how police actions are undertaken in the US. It is not at all what it could be, what it should be.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peelian_principles

Re: Louisiana prosecutors are using fake subpoenas to pressure witnesses to talk

#28

Post by CodeWriter23 »

Meh. My bestie has worked the county counsel office in two different counties. He told me it is standard practice for court clerks to hand out stacks of blank, pre-signed subpoenaes to any attorney, government or private practice. Of course the caveat is if you abuse them, there will be, trouble.

Re: Louisiana prosecutors are using fake subpoenas to pressure witnesses to talk

#29

Post by bogositosius »

This really just boils down to a local version of this:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Administrative_subpoena

Administrative subpoena. This is common practice all over the country. Funny that they quote a former NYC prosecutor who seemingly forgot that the NYC district attorney offices issue self-generated pieces of paper saying "subpoena" on them, too. Must have slipped his mind.

The only problematic part of this particular DA's use of these is the printing of the legal threat. If a judge doesn't issue and sign a subpoena, it's legally toothless. Claiming otherwise is a lie.

But just printing the word "subpoena" on a piece of paper that isn't signed by a judge doesn't make it "fake," as the article so melodramatically declares.

Re: Louisiana prosecutors are using fake subpoenas to pressure witnesses to talk

#30

Post by [deleted] »

duncan_bayne wrote: post #26
Doxin wrote: post #13

> The purpose and function of calling the police is generally to bring lawful force to bear against someone who has committed a crime. Only in america. > Their job is not to resolve domestic disputes Only in america. > Any time you call the cops on somebody, it should be done with the expectation that they may be arrested and taken to jail Only in america. Just because the American police force is awful and only real…

"Only in America" is hyperbole. I'd buy "more frequently" but, realistically, the advice is still sound in any part of the world: don't call the cops if you don't want someone to get arrested. For those down voting, here are the stats from Australia, courtesy Wikipedia: "Data from the Australian Bureau of Statistics (ABS) shows that during the 2009/10 year police took action against 375,259 people, up by 4.8 percent…

[deleted]
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