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Louisiana prosecutors are using fake subpoenas to pressure witnesses to talk

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Re: Louisiana prosecutors are using fake subpoenas to pressure witnesses to talk

#11

Post by keithpeter »

Pyxl101 wrote: post #7
tcj_phx wrote: post #3

Prosecutors have a tough job. Prosecuting people who've hurt other people is the easy part of their job. Prosecuting people who haven't hurt anyone but themselves (self-medication w/ the street pharmacy), or who've become dependent on alcohol just to feel 'normal' [1]... Maybe prosecutors have to have a cruel streak to stick with the job after the novelty wears off. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14085230 S…

> The police couldn't do anything but take this woman downtown. Her daughter protested, "THIS IS NOT WHY WE CALLED YOU", but the officers were like, "whatevers". If all you've got is a hammer, everything is a nail. Sounds like her daughter might have had incorrect expectations for what it entails to call the police, though, unfortunately. The purpose and function of calling the police is generally to bring lawful for…

UK: policing is a bit different here but police officers do often refer people to what is left of Social Services and the local hospital when needed.

In your location, if urgent intervention was required to help a relative in a situation like the one outlined in the grandparent post, what agency would be the best one to contact?

Re: Louisiana prosecutors are using fake subpoenas to pressure witnesses to talk

#13

Post by Doxin »

> The purpose and function of calling the police is generally to bring lawful force to bear against someone who has committed a crime.

Only in america.

> Their job is not to resolve domestic disputes

Only in america.

> Any time you call the cops on somebody, it should be done with the expectation that they may be arrested and taken to jail

Only in america.

Just because the American police force is awful and only really good at escalating situations doesn't mean that that's the best they can do.

The polices job is "Protect and Serve", not "Escalate and Worsen", if that requires temporarily filling the role of emergency counselor so be it.

For example every dutch police car carries a couple teddy bears they can hand out to children in traumatic situations such as car crashes. Sure you can argue that it isn't the polices job to soothe children, but you'll be very glad that they still do when it's your kid hurt.

Re: Louisiana prosecutors are using fake subpoenas to pressure witnesses to talk

#16

Post by peteretep »

keithpeter wrote: post #11
Pyxl101 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The police couldn't do anything but take this woman downtown. Her daughter protested, "THIS IS NOT WHY WE CALLED YOU", but the officers were like, "whatevers". If all you've got is a hammer, everything is a nail. Sounds like her daughter might have had incorrect expectations for what it entails to call the police, though, unfortunately. The purpose and function of calling the police is generally to bring lawful for…

UK: policing is a bit different here but police officers do often refer people to what is left of Social Services and the local hospital when needed. In your location, if urgent intervention was required to help a relative in a situation like the one outlined in the grandparent post, what agency would be the best one to contact?

    > UK: policing is a bit different here
That's an example of typical British understatement, too.

Re: Louisiana prosecutors are using fake subpoenas to pressure witnesses to talk

#17

Post by sheraz »

Sounds like this is an opportunity for a SVaaS (Subpoena Verification as a Service).

(I'm joking -- right up until the point where I am not)

I'm not even sure how one would verify that a subpoena is valid.

I suppose the same goes for verifying badge numbers for police, fire marshalls, city inspectors, etc.

Re: Louisiana prosecutors are using fake subpoenas to pressure witnesses to talk

#18

Post by Pyxl101 »

Doxin wrote: post #13

> The purpose and function of calling the police is generally to bring lawful force to bear against someone who has committed a crime. Only in america. > Their job is not to resolve domestic disputes Only in america. > Any time you call the cops on somebody, it should be done with the expectation that they may be arrested and taken to jail Only in america. Just because the American police force is awful and only real…

The largest Dutch cities are at best medium-sized in total population and density compared to American cities, though, and a lot richer in wealth per capita. For example, using 2015 numbers, Amsterdam with 848k people (4.3k per sq mi) wouldn't place on the top 10 list of largest or densest American cities. San Jose, California at #10 has over a million people (5.3k per sq mi).

New York City (#1) has 8.5 million people at a density of 27,012 people per square mile. In other words, NYC has over half of the population of all of The Netherlands and roughly 20 times the average density. I don't think you should assume that anything about policing strategy in The Netherlands can be applied to these fairly radically different environments.

Edit: I can't reply to the comment below this about education spending. Let's look at the data:

http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SE.XPD.TOTL.GB.ZS

"Expenditure on education as % of total government expenditure (%)"

> Netherlands 12.1%

> United States 13.3%

Re: Louisiana prosecutors are using fake subpoenas to pressure witnesses to talk

#19

Post by Nexxxeh »

keithpeter wrote: post #11
Pyxl101 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The police couldn't do anything but take this woman downtown. Her daughter protested, "THIS IS NOT WHY WE CALLED YOU", but the officers were like, "whatevers". If all you've got is a hammer, everything is a nail. Sounds like her daughter might have had incorrect expectations for what it entails to call the police, though, unfortunately. The purpose and function of calling the police is generally to bring lawful for…

UK: policing is a bit different here but police officers do often refer people to what is left of Social Services and the local hospital when needed. In your location, if urgent intervention was required to help a relative in a situation like the one outlined in the grandparent post, what agency would be the best one to contact?

Our policing is done by consent. Also the police are arguing (I would wager correctly) that they're taking the brunt of the effective cuts to mental health provisioning in the NHS.

Over here (England and Wales) if someone was an immediate danger to themselves or others, I'd call 999 and be put through to the Police operator and explain.

If the person I was calling regarding wasn't an immediate danger, in theory I'd ring 111, but in practice I'd ring Mind because I've had extremely negative experiences with NHS Direct.

Re: Louisiana prosecutors are using fake subpoenas to pressure witnesses to talk

#20

Post by mcherm »

ptero wrote: post #15

I wonder if the offending DA can have his pants sued off his ass in a civil case by one of the victims. This might be the only option unless this gets enough national attention to get the DA fired.

The case has gotten substantial national attention. Which, it turns out, is enough to get the prosecutors to change their practice, but not enough to get them to apologise, and CERTAINLY not enough to burst the veil of prosecutorial immunity. As for getting fired, it is normally an elected office, so there is no such thing. Prosecutors have incredibly potent powers in the US system with few if any checks and balances.
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