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Why Germany Educates International Students for Free

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Re: Why Germany Educates International Students for Free

#111

Post by beberlei »

MarkMc wrote: post #34
anotheryou wrote: post #21

You still need rich parents, because you're not allowed to work much to support yourself.

A German student visa allows you to work 120 days per year [0]. At minimum wage [1] that is about EUR 9,000 per year. I think there would be many international students who could support themselves with that. Standard of living would be low compared to Germans, but it's possible. You do however need to show you have EUR 8,640 before you get the student visa [2]. Very poor families would not be able to borrow this amo…

At least minimum wage. You can aern a lot more as a computer science student and probably in other fields.

Re: Why Germany Educates International Students for Free

#112

Post by MichailP »

While I think it is good for both Germany and students, it probably has a bit of geopolitics mixed in. All those young people, if they return to their home countries, will be naturally more oriented toward German products thus indirectly making German economy stronger. I saw a similar theme in Russia, where there is even a specialized university for this [1]

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peoples%27_Friendship_Universi...

Re: Why Germany Educates International Students for Free

#113

Post by dom0 »

mrkgnao wrote: post #98

I'm a graduating senior in India, interested in studying math as an undergraduate. Considering that I know some German (~B1), could this work out for me?

Math is normally exclusively taught in German and it's not the simple kind of German, either.

Re: Why Germany Educates International Students for Free

#114

Post by kriro »

aphextron wrote: post #23

Should I study engineering in Germany? I'm looking at undergrad programs in California right now and the numbers don't add up for me. Not just tuition, but cost of living as a full time student as well. I also feel like it would be much easier for me (a non-traditional student) to get into a better university over there, as they pretty much just look at your test scores. Not all this GPA/extra-curricular "well rounde…

AFAIK only the GPA matters as you have said (it's called Numerus Clausus or NC in Germany). If you look it up in a list, keep in mind that the German scale and the US 4 point GPA scale are reversed. 4.0 is the worst passing grade here and a 4.0 was an A+ at my US high school (I think there are different scales in different states?).

For many degrees there's no GPA requirement at all. Engineering might very well be one of the cases as it tends to be one of the "harder" degrees (natural sciences, math, engineering etc.) and GPA requirements are mostly for the "popular" ones like business, social sciences etc. Always depends how many slots are available at a given university, too.

Also: if your GPA isn't good enough you can get on a list and "wait" a couple of semesters and for each semester your GPA is virtually improved.

Note: that's how it works for German students but I'm pretty sure it's the same for foreign students (but most will have a requirement of C1 or sometimes B2 German skills). All universities have international offices that you can contact though.

I think Germany is still very much considered an "engineering country". Career wise it's probably going to be a very good thing to hold a German engineering degree. The education is good and there's usually great contacts to engineering companies. I'd be shocked if the degrees weren't accredited in the US. If you can pick a university I'd go with a "TU" (Technische Universität). Also note that we have two different kinds of universities. Universität = "proper" university and Fachhochschule aka FH or Hochschule = university of applied sciences...I'd stay away from these mostly because there's subtle differences that will probably make it harder to have the degree accredited in the US (and they are usually considered lower tier by employers as well).

University regulations differ on a state level so it might be wise to check out different German states. If saving money is one of the focus points I'd advise against Munich. RWTH Aachen is probably the best university in that field, TU Dresden and TU Dortmund are relatively cheap from a cost of living point of view and still good universities.

Re: Why Germany Educates International Students for Free

#115

Post by raphman »

beberlei wrote: post #107
aaron695 wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Other than 9000 EUR an amazing high amount how can you afford to live there? You can't work can you?

As an international student in Germany, you get an automatic work visa for so called student jobs, up to 19,5 hours a week, no limits on wage earned, no extra social security costs. Income tax starts at 8000 a year. As a student, you can get around with 500/mo in Germany, 750 may be the comfortable lower bound

To be clear: 500 € may be sufficient in smaller cities but not in Munich and other cities with high rents.

Re: Why Germany Educates International Students for Free

#116

Post by [deleted] »

beberlei wrote: post #107
aaron695 wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Other than 9000 EUR an amazing high amount how can you afford to live there? You can't work can you?

As an international student in Germany, you get an automatic work visa for so called student jobs, up to 19,5 hours a week, no limits on wage earned, no extra social security costs. Income tax starts at 8000 a year. As a student, you can get around with 500/mo in Germany, 750 may be the comfortable lower bound

[deleted]

Re: Why Germany Educates International Students for Free

#117

Post by lispm »

asdlllkasdasd wrote: post #108
lispm wrote: post #42

> Why Germany Educates International Students for Free One thing to remember: That university education may not be that expensive does not mean everybody is allowed to study. Universities often set high barriers. In Germany 27% of young adults get an university degree. OECD average is 40%. It's not because Germans are more stupid, but because there are less students allowed to enter University education. Also there a…

No, this is because in Germany "university degree" is used in a more narrow sense (it is a higher standard than, say, US college degrees).

https://data.oecd.org/eduatt/population-with-tertiary-educat...

Re: Why Germany Educates International Students for Free

#118

Post by tqkxzugoaupvwqr »

desiderantes wrote: post #104
paganel wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yes, you must first learn German, Maybe because of this? > be able to borrow EUR 9,000 to apply for the student visa Also, this. 9,000 euros does not seem like too much for people from first-world countries, but for people coming from relatively speaking much poorer countries that sum is quite high.

I can buy a house in my country with 9000 EUR.

Out of personal interest: Which country is that?

Re: Why Germany Educates International Students for Free

#119

Post by 8note »

whack wrote: post #105
alpha_squared wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It makes absolute sense to go $250k in debt for an MIT or Harvard degree No it doesn't? I think we should stop putting schools on a pedestal because of their name. I admire some of the research and work that comes out of those schools, but in the end their degrees are no better or worse than other schools' (regarding undergraduate, I can't speak for graduate). The only differences come down to network and academic…

There can be an "absolute sense" from a financial perspective. For better or worse, having a degree from Harvard/Stanford/MIT can open a number of doors that may be otherwise shut. Doors which can be very financially lucrative. For example, suppose you want to work in finance/law. Most prestigious firms place a very high premium on having a degree from a top university, and pay extremely generously if you get your fo…

Isn't admittance to these schools largely oriented towards wealth/past wealth, and the preference in those "prestigious" schools just to make sure that only wealthy families get those jobs?

In that case, if it's a meaningful amount of money to you, it's probably not worth the investment because those firms will still look at you poorly

Re: Why Germany Educates International Students for Free

#120

Post by CalRobert »

twblalock wrote: post #95
toast0 wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One option to save on tuition is doing two years at community college and then transfer to a cal state or UC for two more years. Doesn't help with cost of living though. Look at the community colleges near you, and find out which one has better transfer statistics and planning. For example, De Anza College in Cupertino has a prominent page with transfer information[1]; Orange Coast College in Southern California has…

I went the community college route, from De Anza to a UC, and I don't think I would recommend it to most people. First of all, community college is a depressing place to be. It's like a cross between high school, juvenile hall, and the DMV. For example, a lot of the students at community colleges are stoners who are only there because their parents have conditioned their financial support on college attendance, and t…

Man, I look back with the exact opposite sentiment. I went to a four year school (Cal Poly) which effectively forbade changing majors* - and forced you to pick a major upon entering. As a result, I spent far too many years getting a physics degree I regret every day of my life. AFTER getting the degree, I spent an extensive amount of time taking CS night classes at Santa Monica College, as well as some fun ones (including German, incidentally). I can't recommend it enough. Everyone who was there went because they WANTED to be there. You got to study the things you wanted to study (Assembly Language for the hell of it; why not??), and not whatever some damn curriculum decided was good for you. The professors weren't primarily frustrated would-be researchers who resented their students. You didn't have to take the one class which is offered once every two years to graduate, and oh it's full this time so I guess you'll be in college another two years! And it was so cheap as to be nearly free.

Mostly, it's weird to be in the position to tell young people that university is an enormous scam meant to sucker people who don't know any better into a gigantic mountain of debt that can never get discharged so you can learn a hell of a lot less than you would in the real world. Not only that, this debt is incurred to pay for football coaches, dorms fancier than any apartment you'll ever have, and administrators whose purpose seems to be introducing systems that necessitate more administrators. Exception for medical school, I suppose, since you can't really learn on your own when it comes to surgery.

* You could change to a non-impacted major - one with more spots open than students. If memory serves, this was none of them.

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