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Why Germany Educates International Students for Free

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Re: Why Germany Educates International Students for Free

#101

Post by dragonwriter »

twblalock wrote: post #95
toast0 wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One option to save on tuition is doing two years at community college and then transfer to a cal state or UC for two more years. Doesn't help with cost of living though. Look at the community colleges near you, and find out which one has better transfer statistics and planning. For example, De Anza College in Cupertino has a prominent page with transfer information[1]; Orange Coast College in Southern California has…

I went the community college route, from De Anza to a UC, and I don't think I would recommend it to most people. First of all, community college is a depressing place to be. It's like a cross between high school, juvenile hall, and the DMV. For example, a lot of the students at community colleges are stoners who are only there because their parents have conditioned their financial support on college attendance, and t…

Despite the fact that the concept of them is to be local to each community, with CCs, as with four year schools, you have to research the specific school and your intended course of study to determine the value. They are different, and the experience can be very different from school to school in the same course of study, or from course of study to course of study in the same school.

CCs tend to have much better faculty:student ratios and a much stronger teaching focus than many four year schools (including UCs) will, especially for lower-division courses. As a result, you can, with the right program, get a better lower-division education at a CC, than at a UC, even one that is strong in your course of study.

Re: Why Germany Educates International Students for Free

#102

Post by aaron695 »

MarkMc wrote: post #71

If you are a young person living in a poor country, the two best investments you can make to improve your standard of living are (a) get a university education; and (b) immigrate to a rich country. Germany offers both: 1. A free undergraduate university degree 2. For every graduate: 18 month work visa after graduation 3. For every STEM graduate who earns more than EUR 40,000 per year: approval to work in Germany fore…

Other than 9000 EUR an amazing high amount how can you afford to live there?

You can't work can you?

Re: Why Germany Educates International Students for Free

#103

Post by alpha_squared »

kough wrote: post #100
ilamont wrote: post #84

For a point of comparison, the annual tuition prices for colleges in Massachusetts: http://www.collegecalc.org/lists/massachusetts/most-affordab... Tufts, BC, BU, Olin, MIT, Northeastern, Brandeis all between 45k and 50k. Harvard 41k. When room, board, and books are factored in it's a quarter million dollars over four years. Public colleges (Umass) are a lot cheaper but I've heard "fees" can run up to 10K a semester.…

Some of those schools are unlike the others. It makes absolute sense to go $250k in debt for an MIT or Harvard degree, makes less but still some sense for Tufts and Olin, and makes no sense at all for the rest. And the average college that Americans experience is a 2 year community college; very, very few attend schools of the caliber you're mentioning. It makes no sense to lump all these different schools together w…

> It makes absolute sense to go $250k in debt for an MIT or Harvard degree

No it doesn't? I think we should stop putting schools on a pedestal because of their name. I admire some of the research and work that comes out of those schools, but in the end their degrees are no better or worse than other schools' (regarding undergraduate, I can't speak for graduate).

The only differences come down to network and academic history. If you're justifying that level of debt purely on those two criteria, then I understand that's the value those things mean to you -- and that's okay. Personally, that's not worth it to me. I'm not sure there's "absolute sense" here.

Re: Why Germany Educates International Students for Free

#104

Post by desiderantes »

paganel wrote: post #73
MarkMc wrote: post #71

If you are a young person living in a poor country, the two best investments you can make to improve your standard of living are (a) get a university education; and (b) immigrate to a rich country. Germany offers both: 1. A free undergraduate university degree 2. For every graduate: 18 month work visa after graduation 3. For every STEM graduate who earns more than EUR 40,000 per year: approval to work in Germany fore…

> Yes, you must first learn German, Maybe because of this? > be able to borrow EUR 9,000 to apply for the student visa Also, this. 9,000 euros does not seem like too much for people from first-world countries, but for people coming from relatively speaking much poorer countries that sum is quite high.

I can buy a house in my country with 9000 EUR.

Re: Why Germany Educates International Students for Free

#105

Post by whack »

alpha_squared wrote: post #103
kough wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some of those schools are unlike the others. It makes absolute sense to go $250k in debt for an MIT or Harvard degree, makes less but still some sense for Tufts and Olin, and makes no sense at all for the rest. And the average college that Americans experience is a 2 year community college; very, very few attend schools of the caliber you're mentioning. It makes no sense to lump all these different schools together w…

> It makes absolute sense to go $250k in debt for an MIT or Harvard degree No it doesn't? I think we should stop putting schools on a pedestal because of their name. I admire some of the research and work that comes out of those schools, but in the end their degrees are no better or worse than other schools' (regarding undergraduate, I can't speak for graduate). The only differences come down to network and academic…

There can be an "absolute sense" from a financial perspective. For better or worse, having a degree from Harvard/Stanford/MIT can open a number of doors that may be otherwise shut. Doors which can be very financially lucrative.

For example, suppose you want to work in finance/law. Most prestigious firms place a very high premium on having a degree from a top university, and pay extremely generously if you get your foot in the door. In these contexts, the $250k investment on your college will easily pay for itself within 10 years.

Conversely, suppose you're trying to break into a field that's extremely hard to crack (writing?). In such situations, you'll need every edge you can get, and having a great network or an eye-catching degree in your resume can make the difference between you getting a toe-hold and you calling it quits.

To be sure, it certainly is very context dependent. Getting a cheap Bachelor's degree from a public university, and a Master's degree from a brand name university, might be a good way to get the best of both worlds. In general though, anyone who's smart enough to get admission into Harvard/Stanford is likely going to make multiple millions of dollars over the course of their lifetime. Given this baseline, investing 250k for a top-notch education/network/resume certainly seems well worth it.

Re: Why Germany Educates International Students for Free

#106

Post by brabus »

mrkgnao wrote: post #98

I'm a graduating senior in India, interested in studying math as an undergraduate. Considering that I know some German (~B1), could this work out for me?

I would advice you to learn till C1 level. B1 is not enough and Bachelor in Math is mostly in German and you must take TestDAF, so I think you should spend one year or so clearing upto C1 and TestDAF, which is highly advisable. But you can also do the same in Germany, but you have to spend more money in Germany. Since your German level is good, maybe you can find a part time job, but that's no guaranteed thing.

Re: Why Germany Educates International Students for Free

#107

Post by beberlei »

aaron695 wrote: post #102
MarkMc wrote: post #71

If you are a young person living in a poor country, the two best investments you can make to improve your standard of living are (a) get a university education; and (b) immigrate to a rich country. Germany offers both: 1. A free undergraduate university degree 2. For every graduate: 18 month work visa after graduation 3. For every STEM graduate who earns more than EUR 40,000 per year: approval to work in Germany fore…

Other than 9000 EUR an amazing high amount how can you afford to live there? You can't work can you?

As an international student in Germany, you get an automatic work visa for so called student jobs, up to 19,5 hours a week, no limits on wage earned, no extra social security costs. Income tax starts at 8000 a year. As a student, you can get around with 500/mo in Germany, 750 may be the comfortable lower bound

Re: Why Germany Educates International Students for Free

#108

Post by asdlllkasdasd »

lispm wrote: post #42

> Why Germany Educates International Students for Free One thing to remember: That university education may not be that expensive does not mean everybody is allowed to study. Universities often set high barriers. In Germany 27% of young adults get an university degree. OECD average is 40%. It's not because Germans are more stupid, but because there are less students allowed to enter University education. Also there a…

No, this is because in Germany "university degree" is used in a more narrow sense (it is a higher standard than, say, US college degrees).

Re: Why Germany Educates International Students for Free

#109

Post by igk »

erikb wrote: post #10

Funny. I took care of foreign students in my German university and they get exploited the hell out. At first they pay more than German students for the same semester, despite having worse chances to succeed (language barrier, culture barrier, fewer friends/family etc). Then they have to join preparation courses one way or another, because, you know, German isn't easy. Then they hardly get access to the public student…

Which university?

Re: Why Germany Educates International Students for Free

#110

Post by golergka »

erikb wrote: post #10

Funny. I took care of foreign students in my German university and they get exploited the hell out. At first they pay more than German students for the same semester, despite having worse chances to succeed (language barrier, culture barrier, fewer friends/family etc). Then they have to join preparation courses one way or another, because, you know, German isn't easy. Then they hardly get access to the public student…

> they pay more than German students for the same semester

If the university in question is funded by taxes, I would be surprised if it wasn't the case.

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