It seems it is forbidden for the Turks to get cultivated like other people in the world... We live in an era of lack of information (which is probably like all other eras)
Wikipedia blocked in Turkey
301–310 of 476 posts
Re: Wikipedia blocked in Turkey
#302Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think we should stop communicating from the top. Many problems right now are because heads of state, not necessarily people. Erdogan, Putin ... We should try to get real people to talk, about who they are, what they want (peace ? surely .. war ? not so sure). So peoples in every nation start to avoid the national/patriot filter when thinking and voting.
Real people rarely want war, they all want the same basic things: food and shelter, a good future for their kids, and to live in peace. This is universal over the whole world, unless they've had their minds poisoned by leaders with their own agendas, be it political or religious. However, most people also don't really care that much about other people, especially in other countries. So they elect people to handle tha…
>With modern tech you can communicate with people all over the world without traveling
Internet used to be a tool that enabled people all over the world to communicate. I wouldn't have spoken a word in English if it wasn't for internet.
Commercialization of the Web killed the globalization spirit of the internet.
There's no commercial value in connecting people who are in different markets.
A Web enterprise does not benefit by showing its customers that they might be holding the wrong opinion.
Echo chambers bring loyal customers.
Globalization dies a little bit every time a curious teenager sees an error saying: "this content is not available in your country".
You are not an average internet user if you talk to the people on a different cohort, you are an elite and elites have always been communicating with the elites.
Re: Wikipedia blocked in Turkey
#303Earlier quoted context omitted.
Imagine the Turkish coup was organized and executed properly and they succeeded. Who takes power? Does it create a vacuum? A civil war? I often ponder these "alternate history timelines" and try to imagine what the world might be like.
Turkey has had several coups. So I'd look at what happened after the previous ones.
None of them bore any resemblance to Erdogan. All the previous ones were the army emerging from its barracks, deposing democratically elected and popular governments they thought too Islamic/not secular enough and returning to their barracks. The current political situation is a result of the increasing democratisation that the EU encouraged. Erdogan would never have been tolerated before.
Re: Wikipedia blocked in Turkey
#304Earlier quoted context omitted.
Nope, US needs more Turkey, not less. Erdogan is democratically elected leader, and yes, he is changing and breaking things, but he is still ELECTED. Turkey is going through transformation, and it will come out of it stronger and mostly becoming pillar of Middle East. In an already chaotic part of the world, pushing Turkey to brink to satiate your "bleeding heart" will cause more death and destruction not less.
>Turkey is going through transformation, and it will come out of it stronger and mostly becoming pillar of Middle East. Like Nazi Germany grew stronger and stronger and grew to be the leader of Europe (+)? ((+) until it was vanquished of course by democratic countries -- but where do you find democratic countries, when you need one?)
Every strongman is not a hitler, mao or stalin. Especially, when they come through with largely "free" elections.
Abuse of power as President is different from putting 6 million people in gas chambers and marching around and being responsible for deaths to 10s of millions of people.
Lets have some perspective here, Please!
Re: Wikipedia blocked in Turkey
#305I'm seeing a lot of comments about this structure vs. that structure, but to paraphrase an old Sufi proverb someone told me, it doesn't matter what the cup is made of (gold? wood?), it matters what's in the cup (good water?). It doesn't matter what your government or family structures look like if they aren't able to facilitate healthy individuals and groups. If they are facilitating the health of some and the detriment of others, well then they are wittingly or unwittingly engaging in selection. It doesn't matter if she's your wife or your girlfriend. Is it toxic or growing?
Re: Wikipedia blocked in Turkey
#306Earlier quoted context omitted.
You do realize they voted him in? They specifically chose him to be his leader and continue to do so. Why should the West "wake up"? What do you propose the west does? Should we send the militaty and overthrow him?
In a referendum with tons of irregularities and many reports of government thugs intimidating voters.
Please give me a break, the great majority of the Turks living in Germany (just as an example) not only voted yes in the referendum but after it won there were major celebrations on the streets of a lot of big German cities by Turks living there.
Please stop this nonsense of trying to pretend it's always somebody else's fault other than the majority of the Turks. They choose to transform their country in the mess it became.
http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/referendum-in-tu...
Re: Wikipedia blocked in Turkey
#307Earlier quoted context omitted.
In the case of western Europe, we should care because we don't have internal OR external border controls, and Turkey is a neighboring country with a lot of refugees to dump on us. I wish I understood why there isn't a move to reinstate border checks in the Schengen area. It seems ludicrous to me to keep internal borders open when it is clear that the external borders have failed.
I wish I understood why there isn't a move to reinstate border checks in the Schengen area. But there is a move. In fact, multiple countries have done so, although temporarily: https://euobserver.com/migration/130260 Thing is, border control isn't free; it may not be visible for many of us, but there are a lot of people reliant on the openness of our borders for their daily lives. Imagine having to pass a border chec…
> What if those migrants just came by boat anyway? What are we going to do, let'em drown?
What's wrong with rescuing them and then shipping them back to the coast they sailed off from? If they're on international waters, there are no legal obligations to treat them as asylum seekers.
Re: Wikipedia blocked in Turkey
#308Earlier quoted context omitted.
Plenty of people care, but what are we supposed to do about it? Here in Europe Erdogan makes the headlines from time to time, right before the referendum he made several speeches where he called the politicians of multiple countries "descendants of nazis" and similar. Everybody knows that he cares more about suppressing the Kurds than ISIS. He holds Europe hostage by threatening to release large amounts of refugees i…
I think we should stop communicating from the top. Many problems right now are because heads of state, not necessarily people. Erdogan, Putin ... We should try to get real people to talk, about who they are, what they want (peace ? surely .. war ? not so sure). So peoples in every nation start to avoid the national/patriot filter when thinking and voting.
thats what the un is partly about.
Re: Wikipedia blocked in Turkey
#309I'm a canuck who has worked with Turks and has visited Turkey. They're a wonderful people from a beautiful country with a real problem of a person in power. Turkey is almost entirely Muslim, yet they produce alcohol and tolerate its consumption within their borders, even by their own people. Let that fact sink in for a moment. Erdogan is subverting the premier secular democracy of the Islamic world, but nobody seems…
Plenty of people care, but what are we supposed to do about it? Here in Europe Erdogan makes the headlines from time to time, right before the referendum he made several speeches where he called the politicians of multiple countries "descendants of nazis" and similar. Everybody knows that he cares more about suppressing the Kurds than ISIS. He holds Europe hostage by threatening to release large amounts of refugees i…
I think its easy to make the mistake that replacing the guy at the top solves the problem. Isn't there enough history to suggest that is not how things work?
Trump could have a heart attack tomorrow but his fan club is still going to be around. They will just prop someone else up. Same goes for Ergodan.
This is not a problem that gets solved by dropping a bomb or making a kill list or a wikileak or a tahrir square or a Jon Oliver skit. Unfortunately the current instant gratification generation produced and conditioned by silicon valley is in total delusion when it comes to this fact.
This is a multi generational problem and we could be working towards a solution if we weren't wasting our time with all the above "well intentioned", "quick fix" distractions.
Re: Wikipedia blocked in Turkey
#310Earlier quoted context omitted.
> what are we supposed to do about it? Kick Turkey out of NATO first. If things get worse, impose sanctions.
He's holding millions of Syrian refugees and has threatened to send them to Europe if things don't go his way. Think European nationalism is bad now? You might not have a NATO after that.
Build the wall and have Turkey pay for it.