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Why I Don't Prepare for Job Interviews

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Re: Why I Don't Prepare for Job Interviews

#51

Post by [deleted] »

zerr wrote: post #39
brudgers wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most companies aren't like Google. It makes sense for Google to encourage cramming on algorithms because the type of programmer Google does not need is one who "doesn't do algorithms" and so the cramming expectation filters against those. The type of programmer Google wants is one who can cram for algorithms in the sense that when there is a problem, the programmer can sit down and research algorithms and distinguish…

> Google does not need is one who "doesn't do algorithms" and so the cramming expectation filters against those. Except they filter those who "doesn't do algorithms" for free (the prep/cramming takes about 6 months I believe)...

[deleted]

Re: Why I Don't Prepare for Job Interviews

#52

Post by geebee »

46Bit wrote: post #44
geebee wrote: post #14

There's a big difference between software development job interviews and job entrance exams that is often not evident on people who aren't deeply immersed in software culture. Interviews happen in every industry. An interviewer asks about your interest in the company, your background, your leadership skills. Your technical skills may be investigated here, but in a discussion format. You may be asked questions about y…

I've had software engineering interviews that started with a written exam on general math, linear algebra, pseudocode and a little system design. It was quite enjoyable and refreshing compared to most verbal interviews.

Sounds like a good match for you.

I actually kind of enjoyed studying for and even taking my google exams. My day job often involves a lot of very intense and intricate work, but not necessarily fun concepts. I actually enjoy trying to figure out how to find all matching subtrees in a general tree, or all the permutations of a subset and whether they can be reassembled to enclose a different set, and how to do this efficiently. It actually is sorta fun.

Unfortunately, getting sharp enough at this where I can handle new questions like this in 45 minutes at a whiteboard was a bit much for me. I might be able to do it with several months of intense study. I was surprised with the amount of process they really do expect you to make at the whiteboard in 45 minute (the reason given for the no hire was that I analyzed problems well but just didn't make enough coding progress. who knows what that really means, they may have just been being nice).

Honestly, it may be a good filter. It shows that I either 1) am not quite sharp enough to get to this level within a couple of weeks, or 2) am unable or unwilling to invest the amount of time necessary to get myself to this level over a greater period of time (i.e., I have other life demands that prevent me from doing so, or am otherwise disinclined to do so).

That may give a tech employer some key information about my ability to devote myself to the job to the extent they would like.

Re: Why I Don't Prepare for Job Interviews

#53

Post by bowlich »

I held a similar attitude through college. An exam exists to test my knowledge and abilities, give me a solid idea of what I learned and where my deficits lay. It is not a test of short-term memory. If I didn't learn the material good enough the first time, then it was a waste of my efforts to cram for today.

Likewise with the interview. Sure, I look into the company, the requirements. If they use libraries that I am unfamiliar with, I will review the documentation so I have a general idea of what it does and how I can map my existing skills against those libraries. But I can't become an expert in that short of a time, and I wouldn't purport to be one in the interview either.

I have yet to do an interview that asked me to white board. I've been asked to solve some fairly basic problems (of the fubar variety). But then again, I've never applied to a business that was large enough that my resume and interview wasn't handled by my future direct supervisor. I've no interest in jumping through the hoops of a large bureaucratic corporation.

Re: Why I Don't Prepare for Job Interviews

#54

Post by ffn »

Honestly, the best route IMO is to actually maintain an open-source portfolio of work. This obviously isn't feasible or possible for everybody, but if you can contribute to OSS, doing so is easily the best way continuously test your mettle and prove to your future employers, partners, and the general community that you're someone they want to (or don't want to) work with.

The true value of the face-to-face interview really should be getting a feel for the person - is this person someone I want to work with? Or will this person make me want to kill myself whenever I step into the office? - not to gauge technical prowess or whiteboard prove-you-are-smart-and-took-an-algo-class-in-college challenges

Re: Why I Don't Prepare for Job Interviews

#55

Post by marssaxman »

bla2 wrote: post #34
stale2002 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue is that companies like Google EXPECT you to cram on algorithms before the interview. They will even give you a study guide! Being really good at programming on a whiteboard is the name of the game. And studying for this is absolutely useful, and not "cheating" because everyone does it and is expected to do it.

I used to work at Google. I didn't study for the interviews, I just showed up. It went well enough to be hired. I did study CS and know my algorithms and data structures though.

Yeah, same here - this "cramming for the Google interview" concept is strange. It's not like the interviewers asked lots of exotic trick questions; they were just making sure I understood CS fundamentals and knew how to solve problems. The interviews did add up to a solid, tiring day of engineering work, but it all seemed like reasonable stuff - they were questions about concepts anyone working at Google ought to be comfortable with.

Re: Why I Don't Prepare for Job Interviews

#56

Post by warcher »

If you have to whiteboard code, I would strongly advise practicing. It's pretty loosely related to your day to day workflow, but some places are committed to it. You can get burned with a false negative just because you're not familiar with the paradigm.

It's like the SAT. You can't study but you can absolutely practice, and practice will improve your score.

But if you gotta spend time doing anything job hunting, spend time talking to people in your network.

Re: Why I Don't Prepare for Job Interviews

#57

Post by sidlls »

46Bit wrote: post #44
geebee wrote: post #14

There's a big difference between software development job interviews and job entrance exams that is often not evident on people who aren't deeply immersed in software culture. Interviews happen in every industry. An interviewer asks about your interest in the company, your background, your leadership skills. Your technical skills may be investigated here, but in a discussion format. You may be asked questions about y…

I've had software engineering interviews that started with a written exam on general math, linear algebra, pseudocode and a little system design. It was quite enjoyable and refreshing compared to most verbal interviews.

That wasn't a software engineering interview. That was a programming interview. There's a rather large difference.

Re: Why I Don't Prepare for Job Interviews

#58

Post by stale2002 »

marssaxman wrote: post #55
bla2 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to work at Google. I didn't study for the interviews, I just showed up. It went well enough to be hired. I did study CS and know my algorithms and data structures though.

Yeah, same here - this "cramming for the Google interview" concept is strange. It's not like the interviewers asked lots of exotic trick questions; they were just making sure I understood CS fundamentals and knew how to solve problems. The interviews did add up to a solid, tiring day of engineering work, but it all seemed like reasonable stuff - they were questions about concepts anyone working at Google ought to be…

And some people don't have to cram for there intro to data structures CS class.

Other people do though.

Perhaps you are one of those people who could just walk in and Ace the final exam for an intermediate data structures and algorithms class taught at colleges.

Re: Why I Don't Prepare for Job Interviews

#59

Post by magic_beans »

46Bit wrote: post #44
geebee wrote: post #14

There's a big difference between software development job interviews and job entrance exams that is often not evident on people who aren't deeply immersed in software culture. Interviews happen in every industry. An interviewer asks about your interest in the company, your background, your leadership skills. Your technical skills may be investigated here, but in a discussion format. You may be asked questions about y…

I've had software engineering interviews that started with a written exam on general math, linear algebra, pseudocode and a little system design. It was quite enjoyable and refreshing compared to most verbal interviews.

It's amazing how what can be "enjoyable and refreshing" to one can be the zenith of horror to another...

Re: Why I Don't Prepare for Job Interviews

#60

Post by sigi45 »

spapas82 wrote: post #23
stale2002 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue is that companies like Google EXPECT you to cram on algorithms before the interview. They will even give you a study guide! Being really good at programming on a whiteboard is the name of the game. And studying for this is absolutely useful, and not "cheating" because everyone does it and is expected to do it.

This is only useful to the interview as a process and to the company since it believes that the best hires are the ones that study the hardest. I don't see how this process is useful to the candidate. I mean it is useful if he is actually hired but is there any other usefulness beyond this? Does it improve your skill? Makes you a better person? Is it fun? I don't think so. Also refer to my other comment.

I found it interesting/fun.

I sharpend my skills and learned new stuff.

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