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Southwest to Stop Overbooking as United Uproar Echoes

bloomberg.com

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Re: Southwest to Stop Overbooking as United Uproar Echoes

#291

Post by flukus »

wccrawford wrote: post #265
rangibaby wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In this case, you're in the car, ready to go. Wait! I need that car so my brother can drop his kids off at their grandparents house a state over. You don't want to give it back? Tough, the police are on my side. Thanks for your understanding. Here's an $800 voucher for the next time you buy a car off me.

"This case" was an unusual incident. The majority of overbooking is handled before anyone enters the plane. So while your analogy works for the doctor who was dragged off the plane, it doesn't work for the overbooking system in the air travel industry as a whole.

Hail Corporate!

Re: Southwest to Stop Overbooking as United Uproar Echoes

#292

Post by dx034 »

thunderstrike wrote: post #157
mikeash wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They could have just used a rental car or a taxi. Airline crews don't have to travel by air. The amount of inflexibility displayed by United is breathtaking.

Do you understand how expensive it is to take a taxi that far? Or the fact that taxi/rental car companies usually don't like you going over state lines?

With Uber or a private cab company probably around $1,500. That's $375 per crew member, less than offered for IDB (if it had been offered in cash).

Re: Southwest to Stop Overbooking as United Uproar Echoes

#293

Post by jsjohnst »

spiraldancing wrote: post #254
ajdlinux wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could trivially spend it on a single international holiday if you felt like flying in business or first class...

Actually no, you can't, because they limit how much you can apply to a single flight. To use up $10k in vouchers, it's likely you'd need to make 20-100 flights, before they expired in a year.

Like the other reply you got, I've received a multi-thousand (but not $10k) voucher from United before and the only restriction was use within a year. I also didn't have to use on a single flight, but could use the full value on one flight if I wished (which I did, flew paid business, but was upgraded to first to APAC).

Re: Southwest to Stop Overbooking as United Uproar Echoes

#294

Post by dx034 »

lucasmullens wrote: post #126
brandonmenc wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anecdotally, boarding speed is not my major complaint - failing to secure an aisle seat, however, is.

Fast boarding speeds lowers their cost. That's one of the reasons Southwest can often be much cheaper than other airlines.

Or just do it like Ryanair and always use two doors. With a 737 and two doors in use, any aircraft is boarded in less than 5 min.

Re: Southwest to Stop Overbooking as United Uproar Echoes

#295

Post by dx034 »

ransom1538 wrote: post #175
chmaynard wrote: post #16

Southwest Airlines has the best website, best checked luggage policy, best change policy, and now no overbooking. The big four domestic airlines all treat coach passengers like cattle, but Southwest is the least predatory. Edit: Also, consider that Southwest is very profitable despite the fact that they don't have first class or business class sections on their aircraft. Yes, passengers pay different fares. But as fa…

Southwest has never had a fatal accident (as a passenger). That is damn good. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southwest_Airlines_Flight_1248

These stats are usually better for new airlines (in Europe and US at least) because air travel has become so much safer. Accidents are so rare now that it's just luck if you had 0 or 1 accident in the last decade.

Re: Southwest to Stop Overbooking as United Uproar Echoes

#296

Post by dx034 »

rlpb wrote: post #187
corford wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Overbooking is a technique used by legacy airlines. Pure LCCs don't use it (certainly in Europe) because their tickets are non-refundable other than from EC261 claims and they don't have inter-lining or partnerships with other carriers. I'm surprised Southwest were overbooking in the first place given they're a budget airline... Edit: An exception may be Easyjet (though I've never seen it happen and I fly them a lot)…

Economically speaking, non-refundability doesn't necessarily make overbooking unnecessary. Let's take two airlines, A and B. Both only sell non-refundable tickes. A never overbooks. B always overbooks. What happens? A will fly with some number of empty seats on average, because they still get the occasional no-show. B flies with fewer empty seats on average because they overbook. Which airline can offer more competit…

On the other hand, the discussion delays boarding, you need better/more gate staff, you need the infrastructure to pay out, quickly book to other flights, etc.

I think Ryanair's approach of not overbooking is sensible as it keeps the operation very easy. Also, they can book every flight to 100%. If you deny boarding, you need to offer alternatives. That's not possible if you're the only airline flying from the airport (Ryanair used to use a lot of regional airports) and your next flights are already at 100%.

Re: Southwest to Stop Overbooking as United Uproar Echoes

#297

Post by iLoch »

mikeash wrote: post #149
zeroer wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yea, I agree the problem is not auctioning seats high enough. But the proximate issue is that United didn't offer cash, but $800 in United Fun Bux that are worthless for most people. The vouchers they were offering were only valid at dates United decided. The vouchers expired after a year. And they are offered in coupons for which you can only use one coupon per flight, and the excess value is lost. Practically all n…

Yes, the voucher thing is nonsense. I've been on overbooked flights before where I could have easily taken the next flight instead. I never volunteer, because the vouchers are worthless to me. Offer me cash and I'll often be first in line.

You can ask them to pay you in cash as long as you don't accept the offer before hand. They're legally required to compensate you with cash if you ask.

Re: Southwest to Stop Overbooking as United Uproar Echoes

#298

Post by dx034 »

SilasX wrote: post #111
bilboa wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, that's what "standby" tickets basically are. Some airlines would (not sure it's still a thing) sell you a "standby" ticket for cheaper than a normal ticket, which meant you show up and wait at the gate until near departure time, and then if there are any seats available they let you on the plane. If not you have to wait for the next flight.

Yeah, but the problem is that most tickets are now, in effect, standby, but not labeled as such. Hence why the parent suggested making the status (and the option to upgrade) clearer and more readily available.

According to the article, 4% of planes are overbooked. And if they are, It's rather that thanks to the internet we know of stories like these. 10 years ago no one would've known.

Re: Southwest to Stop Overbooking as United Uproar Echoes

#299

Post by dx034 »

davidf18 wrote: post #113
martinald wrote: post #43

Considering Ryanair doesn't overbook yet is stupidly profitable, I think it's possible to make this work.

But they usually don't use major, convenient airports.

They started to use them, that's not the difference. The main difference is that Ryanair doesn't allow connecting flights. So it's always your fault if you miss the flight, never Ryanair's.

Re: Southwest to Stop Overbooking as United Uproar Echoes

#300

Post by darklajid »

nommm-nommm wrote: post #283
darklajid wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rental cars (booked in Germany or Switzerland) often included restrictions for me. Most of the time they excluded a number of eastern/balkan states, quoting (if they offered reasons at all) insurance prices would be higher. The more expensive the car, the more likely were these limitations: Booking a Golf was 'go anywhere', booking a BMW 5-something .. not so much.

Completely irrelevant. We aren't talking about Germany or driving to other countries, that's totally different. We are talking about travel within one's own country. I would expect rental car companies to limit travel to foreign countries.

Nice use of 'we' there. I implore you to read the post I specifically replied to once more. That post explicitly talks about crossing country lines.
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