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Gender and verbs across 100K stories: a tidy analysis

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Re: Gender and verbs across 100K stories: a tidy analysis

#21

The author failed to mention the context of the data chosen; specifically the dates. For example, rob vs. steal, would change depending on the century the work was created.

> For example, rob vs. steal, would change depending on the century the work was created.

Eh?

Both come so naturally to me that I honestly have no idea which centuries you're talking about, or which you think is obsolete.

Re: Gender and verbs across 100K stories: a tidy analysis

#22

The reference at the end talking about comparing changes over time reminded me of a problem I've been kicking around. For this particular system that's not too hard, since you're putting each word on a one-dimensional femininity/masculinity scale, so you could plot a word on a line graph or something. But what do you do if you want to evaluate the changes of more complex relationships over time? Not just mapping word…

I don't think I understand what your end goal is.

what do you do if you want to evaluate the changes of more complex relationships over time?

Which complex relationships are you talking about here?

Edit: I think I understand what you're asking. Maybe one good way of doing this would be to cluster word groups for different periods of time. You could then perhaps look at where a word is now, where it was at the beginning of "time" and take the delta to examine words whose meaning has changed the most.

Another approach might be to do apriori over time. Take a text from 1600 and lhs is "some manly action" and rhs is "he". Take a text from 2000 and lhs is "some formerly manly action" and rhs is still "he" but with much lower levels of support.

Re: Gender and verbs across 100K stories: a tidy analysis

#23
post #4

The author failed to mention the context of the data chosen; specifically the dates. For example, rob vs. steal, would change depending on the century the work was created.

The author mentions in the second paragraph that the data comes from scraping Wikipedia articles' plot descriptions. So the plots might be old, but the descriptions (and language) were all written recently.

Before drawing any strong conclusions, I'd probably want to do at least some validation against original sources, e.g. Project Gutenberg. You're talking about plot descriptions written by a mostly fairly narrow demographic. I'd be hesitant to use that to draw conclusions about the source material.

Re: Gender and verbs across 100K stories: a tidy analysis

#24
post #6

It's interesting how thoroughly ingrained sexist concepts are in the language. Even a verb that's fairly active like 'resist' assumes a power relation in which they are in a worse position. I'd like to see this done by country or year or language or genre.

Well, we're talking about gender here, not sex, and given that there are two genders [commonly represented in literature], it stands to reason that they would have different tendencies of behavior, or else there would be no difference between the genders, and the concept would not exist.

Right, of course. Since we live in a universe devoid of power relationships, it stands to reason that two groups described differently are in fact different, since no one has an interest in describing people other than accurately. Like how the Jews used to be all scheming and evil, but really cleaned up their act in the past few decades.

Re: Gender and verbs across 100K stories: a tidy analysis

#26

HN : Social Issues :: general conversation : a vegan

That cuts so many ways... But more than ever, I see a great diversity of social outlooks on HN. Might be recent politics, but the result is the same. I love the sub arguments on lab meat, tech ethics, gender equality and representation, and vi vs emacs. Even when I do not agree, I find coherent and consistent alternate points of view useful in seeing the world.

Re: Gender and verbs across 100K stories: a tidy analysis

#27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As in "She Apache helicoptered him in the face"?

Some people identify as "attack helicopter".

...No they don't.

If you manage to find two people who do, congratulations on being "technically" correct.

Re: Gender and verbs across 100K stories: a tidy analysis

#28
post #6

It's interesting how thoroughly ingrained sexist concepts are in the language. Even a verb that's fairly active like 'resist' assumes a power relation in which they are in a worse position. I'd like to see this done by country or year or language or genre.

Is it sexist if it's reflective of reality? Men commit more aggressive crimes than women by far.

Shhhhhh! Theres no room for reality in here, were pretending that gender is a made up sociological concept

Re: Gender and verbs across 100K stories: a tidy analysis

#29
post #9
post #6

It's interesting how thoroughly ingrained sexist concepts are in the language. Even a verb that's fairly active like 'resist' assumes a power relation in which they are in a worse position. I'd like to see this done by country or year or language or genre.

Heh. You have no idea. English doesn't even have proper genders. You're on easy mode. If I say: "Your manager is good.", it's neutral. You can't figure out if I'm talking about a man or a woman without something additional. In Romanian, and I guess in most Latin languages, no such luck. Except for a handful of neologisms, everything clearly mentions the gender, for better of for worse. The direct translation in Roman…

A Bulgarian colleague of mine said that even surnames are gendered - her surname is Nakova, her father's is Nakov. It plays merry hell with admin software from anglo nations which assume surnames aren't gendered, apparently.

Re: Gender and verbs across 100K stories: a tidy analysis

#30
> what verbs are used after “he” and “she”, and therefore what roles male and female characters tend to have within stories.

It might've been better had the author (and the Jane Austen article's author) used some NLP processing to see whether the pronoun was actually the subject of those verbs. But I'll grant that it's usually the case.

Also interesting: gender and the object of those verbs.

EDIT: after some research (that I should've done before posting), it's a remarkably effective technique and it seems only the most contorted sentences might get tripped up. English is nearly always Subject-Verb-Object.

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