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DHL pilot alleges poor labor practices that are spreading throughout industry

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Re: DHL pilot alleges poor labor practices that are spreading throughout industry

#91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ehh, i mean for how much longer do we actually need pilots? I was under the impression they're mostly auto pilot these days anyway.

They still have to be alert and ready to take over during the flight.

Not all of them at the same time. It depends upon how many pilots are on the flight; but observing while auto-pilot is engaged only takes one person. The other people can relax, nap, read, etc.

Re: DHL pilot alleges poor labor practices that are spreading throughout industry

#92

I wish there was a little bit more detail on what laws are bypassed. Unfortunately I'm also a little put off by the emphasise on averting foreign influence. Regulations against foreign carriers operating in the US were always uncomfortable to me.

Isn't the regulation there because the US government uses the carriers in time of war to transport their forces?

The cabotage rules came into place after the second world war.

While the military argument may be used by some, to me, this is pretty clearly an economic treaty issue rather than a matter of national security.

[1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago_Convention_on_Internat...

Re: DHL pilot alleges poor labor practices that are spreading throughout industry

#93
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He is blaming a foreign company which is hiring his own comapny for failures his company is not adressing. Sorry stupid article. I´s not DHL´s fault that Southern Airline is not able to compete and to organize. Btw in Germany there are Unions for that. https://www.vcockpit.de/en.html

Thats a falacy right there- if a outer system integrates a inner system, any flaw of that integration resides upon the component in direct control of the world (the outter system). If you ingest arsenic, and your liver is unable to discard it- its not the livers fault- its the outter system who decided to put the inner system under impossible strain, thats at fault. And democracy includes the rights to call upon gove…

[deleted]

Re: DHL pilot alleges poor labor practices that are spreading throughout industry

#95
post #60

> We work long hours, fly in dangerous conditions and go through years of training, but we do it because we understand that our work is vital to keeping our economy humming. No. Pilots become pilots because they love flying and because it pays well (mostly the former). Haven't heard of any pilot who chose the job because it's important for the economy.

> they love flying Do they really? I mean, if you love driving, do you become a bus driver? It is not like it is flying your cessna around the place.

Maybe not buses, but (anecdotally) train drivers are often people who really like trains.

Re: DHL pilot alleges poor labor practices that are spreading throughout industry

#96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>and that German precision is why they were better than the competition To me seeing that my package will be shipped with them is a negative since I've never had a positive experience. Is a bit better now that I'm regional so they basically only control the package until customs but still bit great before it reaches the country.

I'm in Australia, so it could be a different experience here (and my Amazon deliveries here are still superior to DHL & other providers). The one that really makes my heart sink is Toll - anytime I see "delivered by Toll", I know there's only a 50% chance of my parcel arriving. [The last time I had to pick up a parcel from a collection point, I overheard someone calling out "Can't use Chrome for that, Toll requires I…

In Australia too when I was in Sydney they were both problems now I'm in Yamba so everything goes via one of two local guys who are both really great.

Re: DHL pilot alleges poor labor practices that are spreading throughout industry

#97

The lack of empathy in the comments is disconcerting. The post is a bit light on details (though the example given of flying 23 hours back-to-back continental flights is terrible if regular) the post deserves better than: 1. Pilots fly for fun. You made the wrong career move. 2. Capitalism! 3. you're lucky - imagine if you were a warehouse worker. He's a pilot, not an accountant or lawyer. He knows that there is pay…

I think the lack of empathy is because cargo pilots flying for Amazon still have it much better than warehouse workers. Both job wise (nicer to fly than to pack) and with regards to the pay.

Aviation is one of the most regulated sectors in both the US and worldwide. The reason why DHL uses subcontractors is not because they want to save money, they aren't allowed to fly in the US. Which is somehow interesting because both Fedex and UPS are allowed to conduct inter-EU flights.

Also, flying Cargo is a hard job. Passengers don't complain too much if the flight is delayed due to bad weather, the logistics companies can lose millions due to that. Pressure for cargo pilots to be on time has always been high and shifts have been long. His view is skewed because Fedex and UPS fly mostly domestically with short legs (3-4h). If you compare Southern to other global freight companies (e.g. Cargolux), conditions aren't worse. It's normal to be away from home for a week and only have stopovers somewhere in the desert or the middle of Siberia.

I somehow doubt the 23h flight story (the wording is very vague "asked to sit on a flight") since regulation for pilots is very strict.

If Southern forces a pilot to fly a 23h shift with no third pilot on board then I'm sure the FAA would be very interested in that story and it would have consequences.

My guess is that there was a third pilot on board. It then still sucks having to be in an aircraft for 23h, but he didn't have to work for 23h straight (which would've been very dangerous).

As hard as it might be for someone who dreamed of the amazing pilot job and is now flying weird shifts to unattractive cities: This is not an issue of outsourcing to get things cheaper or of paying people minimum wage for hard physical work without the chance of being represented by a union. He doesn't see his family as much as he wants but at least he's able to feed them.

Re: DHL pilot alleges poor labor practices that are spreading throughout industry

#98

The lack of empathy in the comments is disconcerting. The post is a bit light on details (though the example given of flying 23 hours back-to-back continental flights is terrible if regular) the post deserves better than: 1. Pilots fly for fun. You made the wrong career move. 2. Capitalism! 3. you're lucky - imagine if you were a warehouse worker. He's a pilot, not an accountant or lawyer. He knows that there is pay…

Ehh, i mean for how much longer do we actually need pilots? I was under the impression they're mostly auto pilot these days anyway.

While they're punching a hole in the air, yes. Takeoff & landing in most modern commercial aircraft have some auto-throttle/auto-braking assistance, but those are still generally flown by hand on every flight. Note that the cargo airlines this article addresses are primarily working with a much older fleet of airplanes that the major passenger airlines got rid of, so their tech generally lags behind what you see on the flight deck of your travel flights.

No one has yet implemented a real point-to-point autopilot, and there are none in the pipeline for certification. It's possible there are engineers working on them, especially at Boeing/Airbus, but given airframe lifetimes at the major commercial carriers pilots are here for at least another 20 years with them, and probably 30-40 years at cargo carriers.

Re: DHL pilot alleges poor labor practices that are spreading throughout industry

#99
post #79

The lack of empathy in the comments is disconcerting. The post is a bit light on details (though the example given of flying 23 hours back-to-back continental flights is terrible if regular) the post deserves better than: 1. Pilots fly for fun. You made the wrong career move. 2. Capitalism! 3. you're lucky - imagine if you were a warehouse worker. He's a pilot, not an accountant or lawyer. He knows that there is pay…

I found the wording of that one example strange: For example, my colleagues and I have been asked to sit on 14-hour flights from the UW to the Middle East, only to then fly the same aircraft to Asia on another nine-hour journey. It isn't clear he was actually piloting the aircraft for these flights, especially the first one where he says he was "asked to sit on". Unless "asked to sit on" is an industry euphemism for…

Same here. I think he wasn't involved and it was actually 3 or even 4 pilots on board. Otherwise it would be against regulation. You probably sleep better in a hotel than in the crew compartment on the plane, but he didn't work for 23h without a break and neither did his colleagues.

Re: DHL pilot alleges poor labor practices that are spreading throughout industry

#100
post #60

> We work long hours, fly in dangerous conditions and go through years of training, but we do it because we understand that our work is vital to keeping our economy humming. No. Pilots become pilots because they love flying and because it pays well (mostly the former). Haven't heard of any pilot who chose the job because it's important for the economy.

> they love flying Do they really? I mean, if you love driving, do you become a bus driver? It is not like it is flying your cessna around the place.

I only know the situation in Europe. But here, many get the license by taking out a loan without any prospect of employment. They then have to fly in Asia for dodgy airlines for some years to get enough hours to be considered even for a low-cost airline such as Ryanair. Getting a job at a full-service carrier or even long-haul is next to impossible. These are usually people with a good high school degree and often even university degree. They just do it because they love flying.

There's a TV show called "Worst Place to be a Pilot" about how young people from Britain risk their lives in Southeast Asia just to get a job as a pilot one day. I don't think people take these kinds of risks for many other jobs.

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/worst-place-to-be-a-pilot...

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