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DHL pilot alleges poor labor practices that are spreading throughout industry

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Re: DHL pilot alleges poor labor practices that are spreading throughout industry

#81

Post by sanswork »

SyneRyder wrote: post #80
Dwolb wrote: post #78

A few thoughts here. 1) DHL started in the US in 1969 and became German owned a little after 2002 (it has a pretty cool origin story where the founder felt there was a better way to deliver overnight goods to Hawaii than to literally sit a person on a plane and stuff legal documents in his luggage. He used his student loans to... "bootstrap"). IMO the article loses some credibility by using "foreign competition" verb…

> DHL started in the US in 1969 and became German owned a little after 2002 Wow, thanks for pointing this out. I've been under the mistaken impression that DHL was always German (and that German precision is why they were better than the competition), and I'd assumed DHL stood for Deutsche Something Something. [From the DHL company history: "On 25 September 1969, Adrian Dalsey, Larry Hillblom and Robert Lynn (the D,…

>and that German precision is why they were better than the competition

To me seeing that my package will be shipped with them is a negative since I've never had a positive experience. Is a bit better now that I'm regional so they basically only control the package until customs but still bit great before it reaches the country.

Re: DHL pilot alleges poor labor practices that are spreading throughout industry

#82

Post by dexterdog »

throwaway91111 wrote: post #67
noir-york wrote: post #65

The lack of empathy in the comments is disconcerting. The post is a bit light on details (though the example given of flying 23 hours back-to-back continental flights is terrible if regular) the post deserves better than: 1. Pilots fly for fun. You made the wrong career move. 2. Capitalism! 3. you're lucky - imagine if you were a warehouse worker. He's a pilot, not an accountant or lawyer. He knows that there is pay…

Ehh, i mean for how much longer do we actually need pilots? I was under the impression they're mostly auto pilot these days anyway.

They still have to be alert and ready to take over during the flight.

Re: DHL pilot alleges poor labor practices that are spreading throughout industry

#83

Post by notahacker »

stupidhn wrote: post #39
ash wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unions sound nice in theory. But in practice, pilot unions work only for very senior pilots [1]. All other pilots in the union get paid much less and have worse working conditions. The detailed story about the effects of pilot unions: http://philip.greenspun.com/flying/unions-and-airlines [1]: Senior vs junior pilots gap is also the incentive for the airline owner to go bancrupt and start a new airline. So that there…

> pilot unions work only for very senior pilots Then bargain for different terms and conditions for junior pilots? There is no "one" way that unions work.

Unions are run by senior pilots; it's very much in their interests for pay to continue to be weighted towards senior pilots (and they could trot out plenty of justifications related to experience and training for it if they wanted to) Junior pilots aim to become senior pilots when they've accumulated enough experience so it's generally not in their interest to rock the boat

Re: DHL pilot alleges poor labor practices that are spreading throughout industry

#84

Post by ygaf »

noir-york wrote: post #65

The lack of empathy in the comments is disconcerting. The post is a bit light on details (though the example given of flying 23 hours back-to-back continental flights is terrible if regular) the post deserves better than: 1. Pilots fly for fun. You made the wrong career move. 2. Capitalism! 3. you're lucky - imagine if you were a warehouse worker. He's a pilot, not an accountant or lawyer. He knows that there is pay…

There is substance in the article, but the author is insulting and cliched right at the start (the worst place - for him). If HN says nothing, we're agreeing to that stuff in the first paragraph.

Re: DHL pilot alleges poor labor practices that are spreading throughout industry

#85

Post by notahacker »

megablast wrote: post #72
dx034 wrote: post #60

> We work long hours, fly in dangerous conditions and go through years of training, but we do it because we understand that our work is vital to keeping our economy humming. No. Pilots become pilots because they love flying and because it pays well (mostly the former). Haven't heard of any pilot who chose the job because it's important for the economy.

> they love flying Do they really? I mean, if you love driving, do you become a bus driver? It is not like it is flying your cessna around the place.

Yes, really, the aviation industry is populated mostly by enthusiasts. I'm sure some bus drivers love driving, but bus driving isn't a job with high barriers to entry and enormously expensive training taken up by people who could have taken easier professional jobs on higher salaries instead.

Re: DHL pilot alleges poor labor practices that are spreading throughout industry

#86

Post by ue_ »

noir-york wrote: post #65

The lack of empathy in the comments is disconcerting. The post is a bit light on details (though the example given of flying 23 hours back-to-back continental flights is terrible if regular) the post deserves better than: 1. Pilots fly for fun. You made the wrong career move. 2. Capitalism! 3. you're lucky - imagine if you were a warehouse worker. He's a pilot, not an accountant or lawyer. He knows that there is pay…

>Capitalism is a great tool for progress, but it should not, and is not, the answer to everything.

Nor should it be considered the final or best possible form of human organisation, I should add. Marx's comcept of alienation is quite relevant to your point.

Re: DHL pilot alleges poor labor practices that are spreading throughout industry

#87

Post by Pica_soO »

sqeezy wrote: post #70
noir-york wrote: post #65

The lack of empathy in the comments is disconcerting. The post is a bit light on details (though the example given of flying 23 hours back-to-back continental flights is terrible if regular) the post deserves better than: 1. Pilots fly for fun. You made the wrong career move. 2. Capitalism! 3. you're lucky - imagine if you were a warehouse worker. He's a pilot, not an accountant or lawyer. He knows that there is pay…

He is blaming a foreign company which is hiring his own comapny for failures his company is not adressing. Sorry stupid article. I´s not DHL´s fault that Southern Airline is not able to compete and to organize. Btw in Germany there are Unions for that. https://www.vcockpit.de/en.html

Thats a falacy right there- if a outer system integrates a inner system, any flaw of that integration resides upon the component in direct control of the world (the outter system). If you ingest arsenic, and your liver is unable to discard it- its not the livers fault- its the outter system who decided to put the inner system under impossible strain, thats at fault.

And democracy includes the rights to call upon government to hinder capitalism from destroying the citizens. Like it or not. If you disrespect that part of freedom, you are not a true democrat.

Re: DHL pilot alleges poor labor practices that are spreading throughout industry

#88

Post by [deleted] »

throwaway91111 wrote: post #67
noir-york wrote: post #65

The lack of empathy in the comments is disconcerting. The post is a bit light on details (though the example given of flying 23 hours back-to-back continental flights is terrible if regular) the post deserves better than: 1. Pilots fly for fun. You made the wrong career move. 2. Capitalism! 3. you're lucky - imagine if you were a warehouse worker. He's a pilot, not an accountant or lawyer. He knows that there is pay…

Ehh, i mean for how much longer do we actually need pilots? I was under the impression they're mostly auto pilot these days anyway.

[deleted]

Re: DHL pilot alleges poor labor practices that are spreading throughout industry

#89

Post by SyneRyder »

sanswork wrote: post #81
SyneRyder wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> DHL started in the US in 1969 and became German owned a little after 2002 Wow, thanks for pointing this out. I've been under the mistaken impression that DHL was always German (and that German precision is why they were better than the competition), and I'd assumed DHL stood for Deutsche Something Something. [From the DHL company history: "On 25 September 1969, Adrian Dalsey, Larry Hillblom and Robert Lynn (the D,…

>and that German precision is why they were better than the competition To me seeing that my package will be shipped with them is a negative since I've never had a positive experience. Is a bit better now that I'm regional so they basically only control the package until customs but still bit great before it reaches the country.

I'm in Australia, so it could be a different experience here (and my Amazon deliveries here are still superior to DHL & other providers).

The one that really makes my heart sink is Toll - anytime I see "delivered by Toll", I know there's only a 50% chance of my parcel arriving. [The last time I had to pick up a parcel from a collection point, I overheard someone calling out "Can't use Chrome for that, Toll requires IE6 for the log-in"]

Re: DHL pilot alleges poor labor practices that are spreading throughout industry

#90

Post by pyvpx »

sqeezy wrote: post #70
noir-york wrote: post #65

The lack of empathy in the comments is disconcerting. The post is a bit light on details (though the example given of flying 23 hours back-to-back continental flights is terrible if regular) the post deserves better than: 1. Pilots fly for fun. You made the wrong career move. 2. Capitalism! 3. you're lucky - imagine if you were a warehouse worker. He's a pilot, not an accountant or lawyer. He knows that there is pay…

He is blaming a foreign company which is hiring his own comapny for failures his company is not adressing. Sorry stupid article. I´s not DHL´s fault that Southern Airline is not able to compete and to organize. Btw in Germany there are Unions for that. https://www.vcockpit.de/en.html

is it hiring when they are the largest equity stakeholder as well as own and lease the planes back to the company?

how, exactly, do you propose this "independent" company supposed to address these "failures"?

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