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CEO of ThinkPenguin, Inc arrested for filming police

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Re: CEO of ThinkPenguin, Inc arrested for filming police

#171

Post by bonzini »

grzm wrote: post #90
Kalium wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In real life, there is only "do not shoot the firearm" and "shoot the firearm with the intent to kill". There is no practical aiming to disable or similar with a lethal firearm. There's no difference between the two, and no distinction to be drawn.

Thank you for mentioning this. One minor adjustment I'd make to the above statement is "shoot the firearm with the intent to stop". This is a small, but important distinction. It doesn't change anything with respect to how the firearm is used (e.g., point of aim). At least from the perspective of police use of deadly force, the goal isn't to kill, it's to stop the person from continuing to be a threat. The outcome ma…

It's not minor at all, and it's exactly what I was hinting at.

If the person is stopped, doesn't die, and can be subject to trial in a court of law, that is a _better_ outcome.

Re: CEO of ThinkPenguin, Inc arrested for filming police

#172

Post by scott_karana »

nailer wrote: post #26
jamra wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe there was an app called Quic that shut down, but I heard that Facebook has some sort of live feature for streaming video.

FB live, Instagram live, YouTube live (though YouTube limit it to only certain users because they've timid). Everyone does this now.

All of those sites are easily bullied with subpoenas, DMCA takedowns, etc.

A gag order preventing the public from seeing your evidence would really hurt your case. :(

Re: CEO of ThinkPenguin, Inc arrested for filming police

#173

Post by tenken »

IslaDeEncanta wrote: post #134
stinkytaco wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I absolutely think you should be able to record the police. But following them around is potentially unsafe for everyone involved. It's also a good way to harass good people out of the profession (the worse a job is, the more you have to scrape the bottom of the barrel to fill it). In addition, it absolutely can be a misdemeanor to harass people, government employee or not. No one deserves to be insulted. The problem…

How is following police unsafe for everyone involved?

For the same reason most fire trucks in the USA have plastered on the back "Remain at least 300 feet behind vehicle".

... "Emergency vehicles" such as fire trucks and police vehicles respond to Emergencies. Emergencies are by definition unsafe.

So you could "follow" (from very far behind) -- but it's implied often times that individuals are following closer than permitted in order to provoke a response, or simply without discretion to the publics safety.

Re: CEO of ThinkPenguin, Inc arrested for filming police

#174

Post by pklausler »

coldpie wrote: post #33
rdiddly wrote: post #9

So has anybody written an app for streaming video directly into cloud storage?

The ACLU maintains a list of such applications: https://www.aclu.org/feature/aclu-apps-record-police-conduct

I have my state's version of the "Mobile Justice" app, but I worry that it doesn't really stream into the cloud in real time, so a badged thug could erase the evidence by destroying the phone before it got a chance to upload after the recording was complete. We'll need a true streaming upload app once the pigs figure this out.

Re: CEO of ThinkPenguin, Inc arrested for filming police

#175

Post by krtkush »

bbctol wrote: post #42
richardwhiuk wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US police receive large amounts of hand down military equipment and are routinely armed. Some US citizens are routinely armed, so the potential for lethal harm is much greater in any scenario. US domestic policy has encouraged the police to be at war (vs crime, drugs etc). US domestic policy has encouraged a criminalization of large amounts of petty stuff (truancy / three strikes policies) which encourages this. This…

Also, a lot of cops themselves are ex-military, a consequence of maintaining decade-long wars.

There was a recent episode on radio lab[1] in which it was highlighted that ex-military policemen are actually better than their counterpart because they have better control over there emotions and actions during a confrontation.

On the other hand, non-military people these days are not as well trained and are hence are more likely to shoot.

[1] http://www.radiolab.org/story/shots-fired-part-1/

Re: CEO of ThinkPenguin, Inc arrested for filming police

#176

Post by bobwaycott »

praneshp wrote: post #141
ajross wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Genuinely confused about this morality. Why is it more correct that the officers "went home to their families" than that this innocent guy died in front of his? I mean, I can understand arguing that sometimes protective violence is necessary and accepting that tragedies happen. But you're literally taking a side here and saying that police lives are more important than ours. Why?

I wasn't trying to take sides. One set of people were doing their jobs, another person was doing something without thinking about consequences. I don;t hold this opinion in general, for example when someone videotapes police in a city street. Several people were pissed off about privacy violations when Google glass was becoming popular. I'm trying to apply the same principle here. Yes, ideally the guy shouldn't have…

So ... you're not bothered that in this instance, LEO demonstrably "did something without full knowledge of the situation". Seems we should be holding LEO to a significantly higher standard of having full knowledge of a situation before doing something like employing lethal force. That's what we pay them for, and it shouldn't be to much to ask them to take an extra moment of extreme caution to verify the difference between a phone and an assault rifle.

Re: CEO of ThinkPenguin, Inc arrested for filming police

#177

Post by scott_karana »

crispyambulance wrote: post #167

I've seen this stuff before. Police doing their job on the street trying to keep order in potentially volatile situations and some fool with a camera insinuating himself into the mess who wants to start an ad-hoc high-school forensics debate about police power. Bad idea.

If the "fool" is obviously in the wrong, it's in the officers' best interests not to escalate the situation, or let their egos get involved, and subsequently shoot themselves in the foot.

Much better to deal with it as calmly and professionally as possible. The worst thing you can do around a heckler is react. ;)

Re: CEO of ThinkPenguin, Inc arrested for filming police

#178

Post by JustSomeNobody »

throwaway76543 wrote: post #123
JustSomeNobody wrote: post #114

> You can legally get as close as a foot to an officer provided there is no interference. So for instance one can get a few feet from a scene as a member of the press where an officer is ticketing somebody for an offence. Does the person being ticketed have no rights in this situation? I think I'd be pretty upset at the reporter if they got all up in my business like this.

In a public space, no. You have no right to restrict others from observing or recording. It is not "your" business, according to the law. It's an event occurring in public and is everybody's business.

I guess it begs the question, is this a decent thing to do to someone?

I don't think so. Let people sort their business out themselves.

Re: CEO of ThinkPenguin, Inc arrested for filming police

#179

Post by self_assembly »

sandworm101 wrote: post #108
lohengramm wrote: post #81

Seems like the guy calls himself a "copchaser" and is used to actuallly chase police officers, annoyingly record their action and make sure to insult them while teaching them a lesson about how to do their job. And he calls all that "standing his ground". I am sure police officers can be jerks or even completely criminals, but this guy really seems to be crossing the line of common sense. Source: the YT channel himse…

There is a mindset amongst many that police should never stop, question or even talk to people without some level of suspecion of wrongdoing. They see most any checkpoint as a threat to basic libery. Such "chasers", rather than the silent watchers who dont scream at officers, are extreemists who take laws and constitutional constructions far to literally.

> "There is a mindset amongst many that police should never stop, question or even talk to people without some level of suspecion of wrongdoing."

Or in other words not be harassed. This is also pretty well covered by the fourth amendment.

Re: CEO of ThinkPenguin, Inc arrested for filming police

#180

Post by bmelton »

maxerickson wrote: post #144
bmelton wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It is in a US legal sense You'll need to cite that. It is not in any jurisdiction I'm aware of considered to be a "machine gun". "Readily converted" is a legal term that is defined by the BATFE, and AR-15s are saleable to the public expressly because they are NOT considered readily convertible to firing multiple rounds. If they were, they would be barred from regular sale per the 1986 Firearm Owners Protection Act.…

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/atf-national-firearms-act-... That's the specific part I guess, not "the AR 15". Once it has been modified to full automatic fire the ease of conversion also isn't relevant.

Right. In the same sense that a Subaru Legacy isn't considered a sports car, but with an engine / suspension change, it becomes one.

Regardless, the AR15 is not in any way considered a machine gun until and unless it has been converted to be one.

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