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Want to rescue rural America? Bust monopolies

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Want to rescue rural America? Bust monopolies

#231

Post by zeusk »

Qwertious wrote: post #105
shmerl wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Free market means free from monopolies as well.

Nonsense. Free market means the ideal market of whatever one's personal ideology thinks will work best. It's the economic version of "a perfect world", and everyone has a different vision of what "a perfect world" even means .

Nonsense.

Free market, which btw has grown to become a economical and political buzzword, is not "the ideal market of whatever one's personal ideology thinks will work best"; The core ideology behind it was to let the buyer and seller work on what works for them and keep third party interference to the least.

Fair market imply either party is made aware of all the details behind the trade in case of which price discovery is impossible as the buyers won't buy above real value and sellers won't sell below real value. Anti-trust and Anti-monopoly laws that are sub-points of a fair market are inherently against the ideal free market.

Also, theory does not really work in practice and no market is entirely free or fair.

Re: Want to rescue rural America? Bust monopolies

#232

Post by eropple »

ericHosick wrote: post #229
jaredklewis wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Difficult indeed. An ordinary American internet user consents to countless pages of legalese in adhesion and other unread contracts (TOSs, privacy policies and so on) everyday day. These days, every website, piece of software, digital service or product comes with pages upon pages of contracts to which the user must consent to even walk in the door. Reading all of them is easily a full time job. So, no one has coerce…

This is a deep discussion to have: too deep for a medium like HN. That being said... Your points pre-suppose parties consented to a dispute resolution system: one that is based on arbitrary boundaries and quite monopolistic (1). > I can see why people don't think that the barebones style of "free market" is very free. So, I agree that it is hard for people to understand what consent is when they were never given a ch…

You're given that chance every day you choose not to go elsewhere where the legal situation is more to your liking. The social contract has an opt-out. But that'd be hard, so...

Re: Want to rescue rural America? Bust monopolies

#233

Post by FireBeyond »

wirerc wrote: post #151

Rural America could bust monopolies tomorrow if they voted differently. They've done it before, and they don't need to be rescued by us for that. More like they need to rescue themselves and the rest of us.

Mmhmm. This is the same Rural America that thumps its chest proudly at how the Electoral College pulls power in the US away from major population centers and "into the heartland" (witness Trump). And yet it's our jobs to bail Rural America out?

Re: Want to rescue rural America? Bust monopolies

#234

Post by Clubber »

skummetmaelk wrote: post #28
cs702 wrote: post #4

"I started a manufacturing company in Little Elm, about 35 miles north of Dallas, to produce the first-ever automatically retracting syringe to eliminate the risk of nurses contracting HIV through accidental needle sticks. The syringe received rave reviews from nurses, hospital executives and public health officials, a major grant from the National Institutes of Health and robust private investment. But when my partn…

That's the thing though, that is exactly what a late stage "free market" looks like. What you need is a heavily regulated market that prevents exactly this behaviour. People need to stop wishing for the "free" market. The term is abused by orators and manipulators who prey on peoples desire for a market which is free in the spirit of the word, and deliver to them a market which is technically "free" and horrible.

The end state of free market (as in free of government regulation, not free to compete) is monopoly. Capitalist societies understand that and regulate to ensure freedom to compete. Europe is much better at this than the US.

Re: Want to rescue rural America? Bust monopolies

#235

Post by antod »

valuearb wrote: post #183
arrosenberg wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you figure? Most historians credit the rise of the middle class to the post-war boom in the 50s. Standard Oil and US Steel were broken up during the Roosevelt and Taft administrations in the early 20th century.

When JD Rockefeller was growing up, the average American rode a horse (if lucky), never traveled more than a few miles from home, few had even been on a train. Sailing ships were the main and dangerous form of sea transport. 95% of Americans worked brutal farm labor jobs. Homes were lit by candle and whale oil, and heated with firewood. By the time Standard Oil was broken up, railroads were everywhere, steel ships ru…

And the same thing happened in other countries without Standard Oil and US Steel monopolies.

Re: Want to rescue rural America? Bust monopolies

#236

Post by Clubber »

tetha wrote: post #38
jessaustin wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This really opened my eye: a long time ago, there was actually a meaningful difference between voting D and voting R. I can't really imagine voting in such a context, but it sounds nice...

Similar things are happening in germany. Most people I talk to feel like the 2 major parties have lost their grit, their profile, and they have become mostly the same. However, in germany, this just gives new parties chances to rise. I think that's a sign of a healthy democray - if the old parties stop representing the people, voters will replace them.

In the US, the two primary parties collude to ensure that a third party will never gain control. An example is they both have contracts with the news organizations that televise the debates excluding a third party without a significant (millions) of supporters.

Re: Want to rescue rural America? Bust monopolies

#237

Post by yuhong »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #21

I largely agree with the observations in the article although I believe the author misstates the intention of government with "But in the 1980s, folks in power decided bigger was better, and conventional political wisdom followed suit." The issue with the 80's was that the US economy was in a very weird place where we had low growth and very high inflation (called 'stagflation' at the time). The mechanics of the econ…

This was just after US got off the gold standard, and around the time of the savings and loans crisis. More recently, Medicare and drug prices is one of my favorite examples, and the same logic apply to things like the NSA.

Re: Want to rescue rural America? Bust monopolies

#238

Post by jonas21 »

shmerl wrote: post #115
adrianN wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it doesn't. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_monopoly

It does: > One view is that a free market is a system in which the prices for goods and services are determined by the open market and consumers, in which the laws and forces of supply and demand are free from any intervention by a government, price-setting monopoly, or other authority. That's how I define it. Monopoly makes the market non free.

"free from any intervention by a government, price-setting monopoly, or other authority"

But here's the thing... if there ends up being a monopoly, who exactly is going to intervene to stop it, if not the government or other authority?

Re: Want to rescue rural America? Bust monopolies

#240

Post by vacri »

wirerc wrote: post #151

Rural America could bust monopolies tomorrow if they voted differently. They've done it before, and they don't need to be rescued by us for that. More like they need to rescue themselves and the rest of us.

Unfortunately voting differently also means voting for social change in other areas, which rural populations usually aren't eager for.
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