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Devuan Jessie 1.0.0 stable release candidate

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Re: Devuan Jessie 1.0.0 stable release candidate

#41

Post by zzalpha »

nextos wrote: post #10
helb wrote: post #3

"Devuan Jessie 1.0 RC" on HN yesterday: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14167447 For those who forgot what Devuan was, like i did – basically a Debian fork without systemd.

For systemd-less distros, I really like GuixSD. A functional approach & Scheme for all stuff is a big plus.

A functional approach & Scheme for all stuff is a big plus.

I'll bite.

Why?

Being "functional" and using "Scheme for all stuff" is just a means to an end. What value does it bring me as a user or administrator?

Because I can think of at least one obvious downside: Scheme has no mainstream adoption. So they've picked a niche language (yes Scheme is niche) that users now have to learn.

So the value it brings, in terms of features, maintainability, etc, better be significant in order to justify that pain.

And I'm talking real value, not the value of intellectual rigor or functional purity. I'm talking about actual, real, tangible features that can't be gotten anywhere else.

Re: Devuan Jessie 1.0.0 stable release candidate

#42

Post by fapjacks »

klez wrote: post #23
ratsz wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've heard it referred to as Dev1, which doesn't sound as bad.

Since the effort started from some Italian developers/sysadmins, I would be surprised if dev-one wasn't a good approximation of the correct pronunciation. As an Italian, that would be how I'd pronounce it.

This is exactly the case, and people are being very US-centric about it, complaining about something which doesn't sound right to them, but which sounds perfectly natural to the original developers.

Re: Devuan Jessie 1.0.0 stable release candidate

#43

Post by lomnakkus »

throw2016 wrote: post #40
lomnakkus wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See my other reply here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14174674 > I suspect Linux would not have got to where it is with 'gatekeepers'. Uh, Linus? ... and distros, in general? There are very few people who decide to fork their own distro because, ultimately, good enough is good enough. You're portraying this as some of cabal of nefarious shady characters trying to do back-handed deals... it really was just a c…

I was actually talking about standardization. If Systemd seeks to be a standard then Redhat would have to give up control to a 'independent standards body' where others can influence the design, development and direction of the 'standard' outside the influence of Redhat and its employees. That seems to be the only credible way to create workable standards. Open source ecosystems clearly do not yet have the thinking a…

Ah, sorry. I was using standardization in the "de facto" sense.

I think the "forking threat" applies nonetheless as long as RH doesn't at least broadly go along with the "committee" of the (F)OSS community. Honestly, I don't really see how they would extract any value from not doing that, so I'm mildly mystified by all the "they're trying to take over the world" rhetoric.

EDIT: Aside: Honestly, I don't see much value in trying to "de jure" (as in: ISO or similar) standardize a thing like systemd. Do you see value in doing that?

EDIT#2: I used to work in the semi-embedded space, and I'm sure many of the people I was working with would kind of see a value prop, but I would point out that they were already working with 2-5 years out-of-date Linux distros anyway...

Re: Devuan Jessie 1.0.0 stable release candidate

#44

Post by vertex-four »

nickez wrote: post #39
chinathrow wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed - and so is Devuan.

How do you pronounce it then?

Something close to Dev One, I'd reckon. Mind, apparently I and most of the people I know pronounce nginx incorrectly, and that's reasonably mainstream.

Re: Devuan Jessie 1.0.0 stable release candidate

#45

Post by nextos »

zzalpha wrote: post #41
nextos wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For systemd-less distros, I really like GuixSD. A functional approach & Scheme for all stuff is a big plus.

A functional approach & Scheme for all stuff is a big plus. I'll bite. Why? Being "functional" and using "Scheme for all stuff" is just a means to an end. What value does it bring me as a user or administrator? Because I can think of at least one obvious downside: Scheme has no mainstream adoption. So they've picked a niche language (yes Scheme is niche) that users now have to learn. So the value it brings, in terms…

Functional administration, not just implementation.

Most sysadmin operations are non-destructive. This has huge implications.

Re: Devuan Jessie 1.0.0 stable release candidate

#46

Post by zzalpha »

nextos wrote: post #45
zzalpha wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A functional approach & Scheme for all stuff is a big plus. I'll bite. Why? Being "functional" and using "Scheme for all stuff" is just a means to an end. What value does it bring me as a user or administrator? Because I can think of at least one obvious downside: Scheme has no mainstream adoption. So they've picked a niche language (yes Scheme is niche) that users now have to learn. So the value it brings, in terms…

Functional administration, not just implementation. Most sysadmin operations are non-destructive. This has huge implications.

Care to elaborate? This is a very vague statement taken in its own, and the GuixSD website does no better at explaining their real life value prop...

Re: Devuan Jessie 1.0.0 stable release candidate

#47

Post by throw2016 »

lomnakkus wrote: post #43
throw2016 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was actually talking about standardization. If Systemd seeks to be a standard then Redhat would have to give up control to a 'independent standards body' where others can influence the design, development and direction of the 'standard' outside the influence of Redhat and its employees. That seems to be the only credible way to create workable standards. Open source ecosystems clearly do not yet have the thinking a…

Ah, sorry. I was using standardization in the "de facto" sense. I think the "forking threat" applies nonetheless as long as RH doesn't at least broadly go along with the "committee" of the (F)OSS community. Honestly, I don't really see how they would extract any value from not doing that, so I'm mildly mystified by all the "they're trying to take over the world" rhetoric. EDIT: Aside: Honestly, I don't see much value…

Forking is an extreme action, a last resort. Standards are about establishing ground rules to avoid escalations and disagreements. The whole idea of standards is collaboration and co-operation.

Software is not static and decisions need to be made by everyone the standard impacts. Which is why it is important that control rests in a collective that represents everyone's interests. I think that's the only way we could call it a 'standard' without taking liberties with the word. Wouldn't you agree?

Re: Devuan Jessie 1.0.0 stable release candidate

#48

Post by type0 »

vertex-four wrote: post #44
nickez wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you pronounce it then?

Something close to Dev One, I'd reckon. Mind, apparently I and most of the people I know pronounce nginx incorrectly, and that's reasonably mainstream.

> apparently I and most of the people I know pronounce nginx incorrectly

How do you pronounce it then?

Re: Devuan Jessie 1.0.0 stable release candidate

#50

Post by vertex-four »

type0 wrote: post #48
vertex-four wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Something close to Dev One, I'd reckon. Mind, apparently I and most of the people I know pronounce nginx incorrectly, and that's reasonably mainstream.

> apparently I and most of the people I know pronounce nginx incorrectly How do you pronounce it then?

En-jinks. Apparently it's actually Engine-ecks.
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