Former miners out to put Kentucky on the tech map • Hacker News Board

Re: Former miners out to put Kentucky on the tech map

#31

Post by brudgers » Sat, Apr 22, 2017, 2:27 PM UTC

Moshe_Silnorin wrote: post #24

brudgers wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To me, the process is more suggestive of the idea that the resources likely to produce success when training people to code are scarce and access to those resources is therefore limited using highly selective processes to guard against allocating resources to false positives. I suspect that the process selected 11 people because there were funds to educate ~11 people and that ~11 would have been enrolled in the progr…

The resources are not scarce; they are free online.

There are resources for many endeavors that greatly increase the likelihood of success. It might be a Harvard education. It might be YC's startup school. It might be a retraining program in Kentucky. All are scarce and therefore selective.

One of the things each offers is sustained direct access to other people's time and in particular sustained direct access to expert's time. That's the difference between a personally tailored answer and closed as duplicate on StackOverflow. It's the difference between here's the answer and ten other things I can tell you about and here's someone else's question and several divergent answers to your duplicate question which might not have been the same.

Re: Former miners out to put Kentucky on the tech map

#32

Post by mythrwy » Sat, Apr 22, 2017, 2:44 PM UTC

unclebucknasty wrote: post #25

superpope99 wrote: post #2

Time and time again I keep coming back to the same conclusion - anyone who has the desire can learn to code. I would say that 95% of people have enough innate logic to write code, they just need to be taught to express it formally.

Why do we say this about coding? We don't say anyone can be an artist, or an astrophysicist, or a brain surgeon.

Dentists for sure. Probably could really teach someone to do most of that in a several month bootcamp followed by a couple of years apprenticeship.

Source: Several dentists in the family and that's about what they say. (doesn't stop them from charging large fees though, I mean, they do have student loans to pay off:)

Re: Former miners out to put Kentucky on the tech map

#33

Post by mythrwy » Sat, Apr 22, 2017, 2:46 PM UTC

brianwawok wrote: post #30

mythrwy wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure. 95% of people can lay bricks too. But 95% of people can't lay bricks precisely enough or at the speed a bricklaying company is going to hire them. And for sure 95% of people aren't interested in laying bricks. Is it worth teaching 95% of people to code? I don't think it is. Most people don't have to lay bricks to live in house.

Or 95% of people can make more money at jobs other than laying bricks. 95 % of people can't make more money than coding. Some can and do. Many would if they could.

Hypothetical question: If you could make 1/3 more laying bricks than coding which would you chose?

Re: Former miners out to put Kentucky on the tech map

#34

Post by kyleblarson » Sat, Apr 22, 2017, 2:47 PM UTC

fuball63 wrote: post #23

I'm from the region, and work remotely as a coder. Some of these really backwoods areas are very beautiful and tranquil, and when combined with the affordability, I think it is a great place to code. A lot of local politicians and economic developers are grasping to coal/lumber/manufacturing, but I think there is opportunity to build small tech hubs for young people burnt out on expensive, crowded, and distracting ci…

Agree 100%. Any climbers who haven't checked out the Red River Gorge don't know what they are missing.

And for those who don't know, the correct pronunciation of Pikeville is 'packvul'. (I grew up in the area)

Re: Former miners out to put Kentucky on the tech map

#35

Post by azernik » Sat, Apr 22, 2017, 2:48 PM UTC

superpope99 wrote: post #2

Time and time again I keep coming back to the same conclusion - anyone who has the desire can learn to code. I would say that 95% of people have enough innate logic to write code, they just need to be taught to express it formally.

My view is that most programming work is more of a skilled trade, like being an electrician or plumber, rather than a profession, like law or civil engineering. Doing something useful doesn't take a whole lot of formal education, doing clean good work requires lots of experience plus good teaching in industry best practices, and there are a lot of opportunities for self-employment.

Re: Former miners out to put Kentucky on the tech map

#36

Post by gm-conspiracy » Sat, Apr 22, 2017, 2:53 PM UTC

fuball63 wrote: post #23

I'm from the region, and work remotely as a coder. Some of these really backwoods areas are very beautiful and tranquil, and when combined with the affordability, I think it is a great place to code. A lot of local politicians and economic developers are grasping to coal/lumber/manufacturing, but I think there is opportunity to build small tech hubs for young people burnt out on expensive, crowded, and distracting ci…

Good luck with the broadband, especially in the current political climate of the FCC.

I believe that having affordable, high-speed internet (where you are allowed to actually host a server), would revitalize Appalachia.

Between the shuddered coal-plants that can be repurposed as data-centers, and rails-to-trails right-of-ways that can be used for fiber runs, there is plenty of opportunity.

Good luck convincing the politicians, though.

Re: Former miners out to put Kentucky on the tech map

#37

Post by gm-conspiracy » Sat, Apr 22, 2017, 2:55 PM UTC

brianwawok wrote: post #30

mythrwy wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure. 95% of people can lay bricks too. But 95% of people can't lay bricks precisely enough or at the speed a bricklaying company is going to hire them. And for sure 95% of people aren't interested in laying bricks. Is it worth teaching 95% of people to code? I don't think it is. Most people don't have to lay bricks to live in house.

Or 95% of people can make more money at jobs other than laying bricks. 95 % of people can't make more money than coding. Some can and do. Many would if they could.

I would think a skilled mason would make much more than an entry-level developer.

Re: Former miners out to put Kentucky on the tech map

#38

Post by mythrwy » Sat, Apr 22, 2017, 3:08 PM UTC

unclebucknasty wrote: post #20

Moshe_Silnorin wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>in 2015, then watched as more than 900 applications rolled in. From this pool, they chose 11 former miners who scored highest on a coding aptitude test. Two years later, in an old Coca-Cola factory by the Big Sandy river, nine men and one woman remain They gave people an IQ test and took the top percentile of a group that, due to their interest, was already slightly selected for intellectual ability. This is not pro…

Thanks for saying this. To me, in a strange way, it's a little arrogant to think I am being generous by saying that anyone can code. It feels like I'm engaging in false humility and I am putting myself above them in the first place to confer this "honor" upon them. I'm also subtly devaluing the many other things they probably can do. But, maybe I'm over-thinking that part. Either way, I have witnessed first hand that…

Agreed 100%.

My experience is that being a good programmer is more than a matter of intelligence. It's a certain thinking style that lends itself well to organizing data flows and presentation. It's a certain ability to focus on abstract structures and keep chains of relationships in the mind while envisioning how to manipulate them. And a lots of otherwise smart people just don't think like this natively and "teaching" them is both painful for everyone and has limited effects.

I bet most of us have met perfectly smart people who just didn't click with coding. Just not a good fit for their thinking style. Even if they nominally want to be programmers for the money or cool factor or whatever. Even if they take a bunch of classes. They just never quite get there.

And square pegs beating themselves into round holes usually does indeed cost more than it produces. People should play to their strengths instead of chasing external expectations. It's better for them and for society in my estimation. But certainly if people want to give programming a try they should. And at least "some" experience in programming is better than none. But most people can't/won't become professionals.

Re: Former miners out to put Kentucky on the tech map

#39

Post by Muuuchem » Sat, Apr 22, 2017, 3:13 PM UTC

gm-conspiracy wrote: post #36

fuball63 wrote: post #23

I'm from the region, and work remotely as a coder. Some of these really backwoods areas are very beautiful and tranquil, and when combined with the affordability, I think it is a great place to code. A lot of local politicians and economic developers are grasping to coal/lumber/manufacturing, but I think there is opportunity to build small tech hubs for young people burnt out on expensive, crowded, and distracting ci…

Good luck with the broadband, especially in the current political climate of the FCC. I believe that having affordable, high-speed internet (where you are allowed to actually host a server), would revitalize Appalachia. Between the shuddered coal-plants that can be repurposed as data-centers, and rails-to-trails right-of-ways that can be used for fiber runs, there is plenty of opportunity. Good luck convincing the po…

I am confused, are you guys suggesting that some cities and towns in Kentucky and other areas within the US lack the same broadband infastructure that I enjoy access to in small-town Mississippi?

Re: Former miners out to put Kentucky on the tech map

#40

Post by jbawgs » Sat, Apr 22, 2017, 3:20 PM UTC

Muuuchem wrote: post #39

gm-conspiracy wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good luck with the broadband, especially in the current political climate of the FCC. I believe that having affordable, high-speed internet (where you are allowed to actually host a server), would revitalize Appalachia. Between the shuddered coal-plants that can be repurposed as data-centers, and rails-to-trails right-of-ways that can be used for fiber runs, there is plenty of opportunity. Good luck convincing the po…

I am confused, are you guys suggesting that some cities and towns in Kentucky and other areas within the US lack the same broadband infastructure that I enjoy access to in small-town Mississippi?

I live on the most populous hilltop in Hyden KY. Our only ISP caps at 1mb, and its not terribly reliable. Satellite is of course an option, but the expense is prohibitive if you use a lot of data.